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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2009 : 00:50:04
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I get the impression that most everyone in this forum is more into physical than equities, but it doesn't hurt to have both. Of course you should start with actually owning bullion, in your own possession, before you want to consider moving into stocks, but stocks and ETF's will often give you more bang for the buck as metals move upwards as they offer leverage to the price increases of silver and gold. Two ETF's I hardily recommend are the silver "double" which is AGQ, and the gold "double" DGP. Some of the better individual stocks are SLW for silver and AEM for gold. Check out zealllc.com for some excellent, thoroughly researched articles on related subjects. They also cover copper and base metals.
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Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2009 : 09:23:04
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Yes - you can do good momentum speculations with these ETFs. As long as you view it that way, you will do just fine. GDX is a good GOLD stock ETF to get a nice multiplier effect too.
However, if the dollar does a nose dive with other fiat currencies, we may all find out the hard way that the companies that sell these commodity ETFs are shams and/or have little or nothing in the commodity warehouse. Even if the ETFs are backed with the goods, when you sell to get out and get your CASH, what good would it do you if nobody wanted your worthless CASH.
I think the safest approach if you want to speculate using ETFs is to periodically take SOME of the profits and BUY physical PMs with the CASH. |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 10:49:36
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| Country, you are so right on with that reply. This post is intended for investment advice within your retirement plans (if you have Fidelity as your plan administrator, you may be able to apply for Brokerage Link which will let you, in essence, create your own precious metals portfolio... much better than the limited mutual funds most plans offer). You are dead on about taking occasional profits and plowing the proceeds back into physical (which also has the effect of making physical more scarce and eventually driving up the price of metals making the stocks outperform, nice feedback loop). Another good symbol aside from GDX is PMPIX, which has a 1.5 multiplier effect on a group of gold stocks, but the upfront investment is kinda steep. I think, after you've accumulated a tidy little mass of gold, silver, copper, nickel (only you know the number) which lets you sleep at night, and you've paid down your debt, you could maybe take a (at max) 10 to 20% position in your portfolio and start picking up some stocks. I don't like SLV and GLD, look who the custodians are!! The same insidious cadre of crooks shorting COMEX! The whole problem with investing in precious metals comes down to, ok... so we're smart enough to invest and reap the benefits in FRN's which will far outpace inflation for early investors, but then, once you've had a great run-up, what do you switch into? If you go back too early when you cash out you'll eventually wish you hadn't. So, buy now and hold on forever? I guess the good thing is if you have enough FRN's you'll never need to buy toilet paper. |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 16:20:14
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quote:
The whole problem with investing in precious metals comes down to, ok... so we're smart enough to invest and reap the benefits in FRN's which will far outpace inflation for early investors, but then, once you've had a great run-up, what do you switch into?
Copper,nickel....... |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 17:24:20
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that could work Jerry... stay ahead of the curve and always buy undervalued assets before the financial radar detects them. I think it might help to have both. The trouble with CU and NI is opportunity cost; how long will you have to park funds in an asset class before it begins to really move, as we are just beginning to see happen in silver/gold? I think the place to be for the next two or three years will still be Ag/Au rather than base metals, but their time will come, even zinc  at which time we won't need to dump anymore. |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 18:55:30
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quote:
The trouble with CU and NI is opportunity cost; how long will you have to park funds in an asset class before it begins to really move
Split your discretionary income into allotments for PMs, copper, and emergency/investment savings. The piles of copper and nickel coins can be liquidated in hours to raise cash. Stocks, real estate and silver are subject to many market variances. As long as a "good" rate of interest is 1%, guess what, I'll lock money up in copper that currently has 199% of face value. If I can get 120% of face value, that is worth holding copper for a few years. Opportunity costs sometimes are advantaged by NOT putting all your eggs in one basket.
I am not criticizing anyone for skimping on saving pennies and nickels. To me, this is a huge psychological hedge. If years go by and I miss out on my money making a few percent a year in some kind of fund, oh well. I have gotten fooled a few times by the market. My best actions would of been to sit tight and not let money go into go-go investments. I envision years of wage stagnation and inflation to tell you the truth. We ate all our seedcorn these past decades. I am trying to think what will be the wise investments for the next few decades. |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 21:07:33
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| I kinda like the thinking of Mike Maloney of GoldSilver.com His book advocates PM's investing and riding what he expects to be a huge transfer of wealth in the coming years from the hands of the holders of FRN's to those who accumulated silver and gold and then selling and moving, perhaps into land or housing. Housing likely won't bottom until 2013 or 2014, so if we're still around by then it could be a good play. Also consider GEX, an alternative energy ETF. They got rid of DXO, my favorite oil play. After the market bottoms you could try ERX, which is a triple bull oil play. Peak oil is real and will be impacting us soon. Google "the long emergency" by James Howard Kuntsler, it's an eye-opener. |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
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Good ETF's to ride the precious metals surge
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