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14 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2009 : 03:59:38
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I have recently decided to buy up a bunch of mining stocks and some gold and silver bullion, given that premiums on gold coins are higher is the numismatic value differential really worth it from a straight gold investing goal.
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BUY GOLD/SILVER |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 08:06:44
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| There are different reasons for the different flavors of PMs. Speculate with mining stocks and paper gold and silver (ETFs), collect coins for your coin collection that will contain high premium gold and silver coins with numismatic value (an enjoyable but an expensive way to create a store of wealth), and your purchases of gold and silver in coins, rounds, and bars for your store of wealth that should be bought near spot. It all depends on you goals for how you want to spend your fiat money. What percentage for each flavor of PM? You decide. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 09:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dynadin
I have recently decided to buy up a bunch of mining stocks and some gold and silver bullion, given that premiums on gold coins are higher is the numismatic value differential really worth it from a straight gold investing goal.
If your goal is straight gold investing than no its not worth the premium for the numismatic coins. |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 10:07:35
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It depends on what your goal is. Is it short or long term?
Anyway, you can make money on gold coins. Case in point...I compared the values from two different Greysheets (May 30, 2008 and June 26, 2009) for the $5 Liberty gold type coin with motto in MS-63:
Spot on 5/30/08 was using a basis of $907.70
Spot on 6/26/09 was using a basis of $920.60 so roughly a $13 difference based on spot
For the coin mentioned in MS-63:
Bid was $810 on 5/30/08
Bid was $1000 on 6/26/09 so a difference of $190 on this numismatic piece compared to $13 for the spot price
So even if a $30-$50 premium occured on 5/30/08, but didn't for some reason on 6/26/09, you are still ahead on a single $5 Liberty compared to a one ounce gold bullion piece.
I've made some decent money this year buying and selling numismatic gold coins, and I know other dealers here have as well.
If you bought that same $5 Liberty but only in a VF20 grade, bid prices were:
$220 on 5/30/08 compared to $265 on 6/26/09 so even with a $13 spot price increase, the coin bid price went up $45.
With any investment you have to do your own due diligence, but with smart buying you can make money on gold coins. |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 19:10:49
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I posted this some time ago but I will repeat it here in case new members missed it.
Buying old gold coins wisely.
This applies to US Gold coins but it can apply to other nations gold coins as well.
The three things to look for when buying gold coins are the following-
-Condition/Grade
-Quantity minted in one particular year for a particular coin
-Which mint produced the gold coin.
Condition/Grade- the better the condition, the better the price. Just as Coinhunter53562 mentioned, a mint state coin sells for more than a Very fine coin. Numismatic collectors want the best of the best if they can afford it, so the better the coin, the better the price.
Quantity minted in one particular year for a particular coin- I will use the $20 gold piece for the example. In 1870 the San Francisco Mint produced 982,000 twenty dollar gold pieces, in 1870 the Carson City Mint produced only 3,789. Which do you suppose will sell for a premium?
100,000 seems to be the number that separates common gold coins from scare gold coins. If 100,000 or more were minted, the gold coin is considered common, less than 100,000, it is scarce and thus more valuable.
Which mint produced the gold coin.
The Philadelphia Mint is the main US Mint and usually produces the most coins. When pre 1933 gold coins are concerned, the Philadelphia Mint usually did most of the gold minting (not always, but usually.)
There is sometimes a bias against the gold coins from the Philadelphia Mint due to their high production, which is one small reason why gold coins minted in a mint other than the Philadelphia mint sell for more (again, not always, but sometimes this is the case.)
If you want to buy old gold coins you must research the subject thoroughly to get the best coin for the best price. A wise and patient buyer always does better than the buy anything he sees buyer, this applies for just about anything, not just gold coins.
Buy smart and good profits to you. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 02:04:05
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D and C mints are always nice if you can get them.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 10:43:29
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| Aren't pre-1933 European Gold coins very close to spot? That way you are getting the gold you want without paying a big premium like U.S. pre-1933 coins. Also, you are getting coins that have a defined amount of gold (wouldnt have to be assayed) and would be easily sellable. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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kieblera5
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 11:02:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dynadin
I have recently decided to buy up a bunch of mining stocks and some gold and silver bullion, given that premiums on gold coins are higher is the numismatic value differential really worth it from a straight gold investing goal.
The only gold I own is numismatic. The only thing is that I bought it for spot price. That is the only time I suggest paying the premium unless it is a good/rare date. If you know you can get the money from someone else for the premium, you might as well pay it yourself. |
Democracy is being allowed to vote for the candidate you dislike least.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you mercilessly with experience.
Caller number seven gets the Peace Prize!
Get coding tips, tricks, and more at: http://codingmonday.blogspot.com |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 11:11:33
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| So you wouldnt do pre-1933 European? |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 20:16:46
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I would do pre 1933 european gold, but htere are some drawbacks with foreign gold.
1. Availability of sellers- Most sellers deal with the main type of gold coins or the best sellers, the US Eagles, Canadian Maple Leafs and Kruggerands, maybe British Sovereigns and to a lesser degree Mexican Gold. Granted, ebay sellers have increased the quantity of sellers, though the gold coins sold tend to get pushed up in price well over spot.
2. Buyers knowledge of foreign/European gold coins.
As was posted in the topic section concerning silver coins of the 20th century, most American coin buyers do not know too much about foreign silver. This enables knowledgable buyers to get the great deals but the number of those in the know is limited. This is also the case of foreign gold. If you want to sell European gold, finding a knowledgable buyer (not including dealers) is harder than finding buyers who know US Gold.
3. Restrikes- The Austrian Ducat has been restruck to fill the demand of gold buyers using the last year they were struck. If a person only wants bullion the Austrian Ducat isn't a bad coin to own, but if the goal is to own a numimatic coin, then the ducat suffers from the image as a bit of a fraud. While the gold content is the same as the original minted coins, the restrikes tend to diminish the allure of the older coins. Telling the difference from the original strike and a restrike is not easy, and this tends to make some buyers shy away from Ducats.
4. Counterfeits- It has been said that counterfeit coins have existed as long as real coins have been minted. Counterfeit European gold coins do exist and telling the difference from the real from the fake takes some special knowledge, causing a buyer of European gold to be extra careful. There are of course fake US Gold, but it is easier in the US for an expert to find a fake US Gold coin than it is for an expert in the US to detect a fake European gold coin.
5. Guide book- Just about everyone has heard of or owns a Redbook or can examine one from the local library reference section. A guidebook of all European gold coins is hard to find (I'm quite sure it exists, but I suspect it won't be cheap.)
These reasons tend to deter gold buyers from buying European and foreign gold. This isn't to discourage you from buying European gold if you can find it, it is just some advice on what to expect when it is available.
Good luck and good profits to all! |
Edited by - pencilvanian on 10/09/2009 20:22:03 |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 11:01:11
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Try to remember that due to gravity and many other monitary reasons, what goes up must come down.  |
Carl |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 12:08:16
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my impression is that the premium on numismatics now is smaller than it had been, but of course the truth of that statement depends on the time periods you compare. still, i would think if your are inclined towards numismatics that this is a good time to buy rather than to sell. i have a few and i'm not selling until the prices get higher.
stocks v. bullion? bullion has moved a lot but several stocks have not. i dont like the look of the stock market but on a relative value basis yeah switching some bullion to stocks now is probably not a bad idea. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 20:40:34
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| If you're buying gold on ebay, bid where you can find value. Know what you're willing to spend and don't get caught up in emotion. Try Powersnipe to have your bids placed for you. I own lots of European pre-1933 gold. Without disregarding the advice offered by others, you will always have willing buyers of any form of gold, but perhaps not as many as the more popular Maple Leafs, Eagles, Kruggerands, Pandas, Nuggets, and Philharmonics, for instance. Recognizing that you may receive a smaller premium above melt when you sell, don't forget that you paid a smaller premium when you purchased. I wouldn't worry about the form of the gold, as long as you're getting a good price related to melt. It is getting very difficult to find fractional Eagles so sometimes the numismatic coins in XF to AU represent a reasonable means of assembling a gold coin trove. Krause puts out a catalog with all historical world gold coin prices. |
Hoard now and hold on!
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Gold Coin Investing
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