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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 08/04/2009 : 18:50:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
I think this says a lot about our current health care system compared to government-controlled economies:
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Maybe you could copy and paste.
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:10:37
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Comparing CUBA to USA health care is a bad comparison. Comparing our health care system to the UK or France or Japan would be a better comparison since we are dealing with developed nations. The health care system in America needs to be changed now.
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
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Sick in the U.S.A.
You must be logged in to see this link. Topics&is=Tony%20Blair&it=Person
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---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:12:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by Neckro
Not mine either. But what is so bigoted about the image?
The bogotry is obvious!
Damn bogotry!
Bigotry means a refusal to think, which does not descibe the image. The image depicts Obama as a wich doctor, ie, someone trying to fix health problems with no real idea what they are doing. A very thoughtful image if you ask me.
It's only a thoughtful image if you are a WHITE person. I don't think Black Americans would agree with you.
Depicting someone as a witch doctor is only racist if you think that the majority of blacks actually identify with and respect witch doctors - I doubt it. Its the same as depicting Cheney as a Medieval European torture chamber guy. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:15:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
Uh, France a leader? Not in developing new technology or delivering services that people actually want. Any study that puts US healthcare last instead of first or top five is not a "study", it is leftist propoganda. Life expectancy in Europe and America is almost exactly the same: the only difference is that they pay through the nose in taxes and wait in lines and we don't. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:17:38
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quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by Neckro
Not mine either. But what is so bigoted about the image?
The bogotry is obvious!
Damn bogotry!
Bigotry means a refusal to think, which does not descibe the image. The image depicts Obama as a wich doctor, ie, someone trying to fix health problems with no real idea what they are doing. A very thoughtful image if you ask me.
It's only a thoughtful image if you are a WHITE person. I don't think Black Americans would agree with you.
Depicting someone as a witch doctor is only racist if you think that the majority of blacks actually identify with and respect witch doctors - I doubt it. Its the same as depicting Cheney as a Medieval European torture chamber guy.
You've got to be kidding. I wish a Black American who is a RealCent member had the courage to speak up on this topic. I think they would tell you otherwise. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
Uh, France a leader? Not in developing new technology or delivering services that people actually want. Any study that puts US healthcare last instead of first or top five is not a "study", it is leftist propoganda. Life expectancy in Europe and America is almost exactly the same: the only difference is that they pay through the nose in taxes and wait in lines and we don't.
We can't afford our healthcare system any more. It is bankrupting individuals and our government. The time has come. Changes need to be made. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:31:41
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The French pay 21% of their income into their health care system. They do not have a single payer system as Obama wishes for us.
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:32:19
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| People make fun of Bush as being a Texas cowboy, I will make fun of Obama for being a African witch doctor, haha. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
Uh, France a leader? Not in developing new technology or delivering services that people actually want. Any study that puts US healthcare last instead of first or top five is not a "study", it is leftist propoganda. Life expectancy in Europe and America is almost exactly the same: the only difference is that they pay through the nose in taxes and wait in lines and we don't.
We can't afford our healthcare system any more. It is bankrupting individuals and our government. The time has come. Changes need to be made.
I agree about making changes. I just favor changes that follow the Constitution and advance individual freedom, not violate the Constitution and expand government power over me and my family. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:36:02
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| I liked the Joker picture better myself. Getting tired of any harsh criticism of Obama automatically being labeled as racist. |
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:46:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
Uh, France a leader? Not in developing new technology or delivering services that people actually want. Any study that puts US healthcare last instead of first or top five is not a "study", it is leftist propoganda. Life expectancy in Europe and America is almost exactly the same: the only difference is that they pay through the nose in taxes and wait in lines and we don't.
We can't afford our healthcare system any more. It is bankrupting individuals and our government. The time has come. Changes need to be made.
Changes that embrace free market principles and make sense are in order. HSA's are great option. Tort reform is required to bring down costs long term, but too many of our "representatives" are in bed with the ambulance chasers and will never, ever allow this to be accomplished. IMO we don't have a health care problem, as much as a coverage issue for those without insurance and a cost issue across the board. Both issues can be addressed without tearing our system apart.
Democrats want to control the system entirely. They'll set wage caps, fee schedules, and control coverage. What good doctor is gonna put up with that? You think we'll train as many dr.s? Nope. We have a doctor shortage already. What happens when we put an estimated 47 million more people into hospitals in the next couple years? We don't have the manpower for this. Coverage will be rationed at this point and who decides who gets care?
This is a bad idea all the way around. Fix the cost issue and then we can talk about getting the remainder of folks who still cannot afford coverage on some kind of insurance plan. Don't blow up the entire system. |
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:49:02
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quote:
Originally posted by giddyup99
I liked the Joker picture better myself. Getting tired of any harsh criticism of Obama automatically being labeled as racist.
It's OK to criticise the President. It isn't racist to do so. Criticise the ideas being proposed, not with stupid pictures, but with your own ideas that have been well thought out for which you passionately feel. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Edited by - Country on 08/04/2009 19:51:22 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by giddyup99
quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
Uh, France a leader? Not in developing new technology or delivering services that people actually want. Any study that puts US healthcare last instead of first or top five is not a "study", it is leftist propoganda. Life expectancy in Europe and America is almost exactly the same: the only difference is that they pay through the nose in taxes and wait in lines and we don't.
We can't afford our healthcare system any more. It is bankrupting individuals and our government. The time has come. Changes need to be made.
Changes that embrace free market principles and make sense are in order. HSA's are great option. Tort reform is required to bring down costs long term, but too many of our "representatives" are in bed with the ambulance chasers and will never, ever allow this to be accomplished. IMO we don't have a health care problem, as much as a coverage issue for those without insurance and a cost issue across the board. Both issues can be addressed without tearing our system apart.
Democrats want to control the system entirely. They'll set wage caps, fee schedules, and control coverage. What good doctor is gonna put up with that? You think we'll train as many dr.s? Nope. We have a doctor shortage already. What happens when we put an estimated 47 million more people into hospitals in the next couple years? We don't have the manpower for this. Coverage will be rationed at this point and who decides who gets care?
This is a bad idea all the way around. Fix the cost issue and then we can talk about getting the remainder of folks who still cannot afford coverage on some kind of insurance plan. Don't blow up the entire system.
I appreciate your ideas. The key is the cost issue.  |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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giddyup99
Penny Pincher Member
USA
154 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 20:06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by giddyup99
I liked the Joker picture better myself. Getting tired of any harsh criticism of Obama automatically being labeled as racist.
It's OK to critize the President. It isn't racist to do so. Critize the ideas being proposed, not with stupid pictures, but with your own ideas that have been well thought out for which you passionately feel.
Unfortunately pictures, cartoons and caricatures of our leaders have always been in play. Seems only when its the "your guy" that it hits home. Although I'm far from an Obama guy, I think the witch doctor pic crosses a line. I don't think its a racist line, but it just doesn't feel right. Many on the left were brutal to GWB, as bad and much worse than anything Obama has dealt with to this point. I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but unless you (not you specifically Country) are a Dem that spoke out against the crap GWB had to endure; I wouldn't complain about a couple of photoshops.
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 20:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by giddyup99
quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by AGgressive Metal
quote:
Originally posted by Country
France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last: study
Uh, France a leader? Not in developing new technology or delivering services that people actually want. Any study that puts US healthcare last instead of first or top five is not a "study", it is leftist propoganda. Life expectancy in Europe and America is almost exactly the same: the only difference is that they pay through the nose in taxes and wait in lines and we don't.
We can't afford our healthcare system any more. It is bankrupting individuals and our government. The time has come. Changes need to be made.
Changes that embrace free market principles and make sense are in order. HSA's are great option. Tort reform is required to bring down costs long term, but too many of our "representatives" are in bed with the ambulance chasers and will never, ever allow this to be accomplished. IMO we don't have a health care problem, as much as a coverage issue for those without insurance and a cost issue across the board. Both issues can be addressed without tearing our system apart.
Democrats want to control the system entirely. They'll set wage caps, fee schedules, and control coverage. What good doctor is gonna put up with that? You think we'll train as many dr.s? Nope. We have a doctor shortage already. What happens when we put an estimated 47 million more people into hospitals in the next couple years? We don't have the manpower for this. Coverage will be rationed at this point and who decides who gets care?
This is a bad idea all the way around. Fix the cost issue and then we can talk about getting the remainder of folks who still cannot afford coverage on some kind of insurance plan. Don't blow up the entire system.
HSAs are indeed a great way to go, but a lot of liberal lawmakers don't like HSAs because they give power and choices to the consumer and reduce the need for government bureaucracy and power. |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 20:36:39
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quote:
Country
Criticise the ideas being proposed, not with stupid pictures, but with your own ideas that have been well thought out for which you passionately feel.
Well,as a matter of fact, I do have passionate feelings for the pictures I posted.
What is it they say, oh yeah, a picture is worth a thousand words.
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 03:01:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by giddyup99
I liked the Joker picture better myself. Getting tired of any harsh criticism of Obama automatically being labeled as racist.
It's OK to criticise the President. It isn't racist to do so. Criticise the ideas being proposed, not with stupid pictures, but with your own ideas that have been well thought out for which you passionately feel.
Country,
I respect your non-libertarian views (I am a libertarian), however I strongly disagree with them. The behavior you have made in the post reminds me of one of the many liberals who professes, "I'm SO offended...something MUST be done!", and favors censorship. I think the subject is getting beat to death. I'll admit (or not, since admitting would be a confession of guilt), that I laughed long and hard after viewing that image. It was not because of racism, or because I "disrespect" BH0 (even though I do), but because it turned his Statist, Socialistic, Nontraditional American (I'm afraid of saying Un-American, the liberals may bite my ass for it) views into a comical image. I'm almost positive that you would laugh at a picture of George Bush being made fun of for being a Texan, and you would be angered by a self-righteous conservative calling you out on it. |
Edited by - Gr33nday43 on 08/05/2009 03:04:14 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 03:17:41
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| Also, I feel like this argument is hijacking this thread. My view on universal health care and regulation of insurance is a big, fat NO! HMO's and government regulation have done nothing but raise costs. This raising of costs affects the average Joe, and the 250k crowd that the socialists are out to destroy. Insurance company's costs have skyrocketed since the prices they have to pay for their customer's medical care keeps rising because of government intervention (think HMO's, Medicaid, Medicare). Liberals, or anyone for that matter, have no right to be a modern day "Rob-in Hood", unless they want this great country to fall to it's broken, bruised knees. This form of so called "altruism" does nothing to help the average Joe in the long run, but Liberals and their one-sided thinking fail to realize this. A crash course book on the efficiencies of the free market and the inefficiencies of bureaucracies should be read by every citizen, since every voter who voted these cronies in (Billary, BH0), surely doesn't get it. Go read some Mises and Hayek and then possibly reconsider your views. |
Edited by - Gr33nday43 on 08/05/2009 03:23:07 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 03:24:04
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| I think this administration is making the same mistake with health care that they're making with all the other intervention and bailouts--they aren't letting dead wood be burned off, so when the collapse finally comes, because inefficiencies have been reinforced and supported, it will be worse than if there had been much less or no regulation. Just like wildfires out west have been worse in recent years because extreme greens have lobbied against controlled burns of underbrush, which just results in more fuel to feed fires when they finally come, the feds are just letting more fuel build up in the health care industry and not letting it burn out and let new, more efficient entities replace them. But this administration hasn't seen any of the other problems they're creating, so I don't expect them to wake up about health care. |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 05:05:01
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Ok, the witch doctor post COULD be considered racist by some. However the widely circulated "Palin in a flag bikini with a big gun" is sexist, so this goes both ways.
Obama is NOT my President because I live in Canada or somewhere strange like that. |
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 19:36:53
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quote:
Obama is NOT my President because I live in Canada or somewhere strange like that.
Isn't funny (not) that he has a bigger effect on your lives than
your own government...Therefore he is your President de facto...
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 20:17:57
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my .02 cents...
Cent 1 - As I understand freedom, responsibility and our Rights it matter not one whit what something "could be considered to be" but instead we should look to "intent".
Was it intended to be racist? Is it "illegal" to be racist?
Cent .02 - Another subtle shift that has occurred in some people today it seems is that one notion expressed earlier " he is your President".
I absolutley agree wit the statement but feel it should be changed gramaticly. "he is Your president" All men are created equal. Thats means me and hims on the same footing. The government derives its pawers from the consent of the governed. "he is Your president." You are the posessor. He is your employee. Public servant.
The only oath and job description I know of for the president is to uphold the ofice of the president and defend the constitution of the United States. If the country faces a national problem, the we need a national solution coming to the government, through the representitives, from the people of the states.
Why is healthcare so exspensive? Find out the number of people that work with, for, through, or are affiliated with, or profit from the "medical industry", Then find out the percentage of the people actually involved with practicing medicine and the bean counters/insurance/admin/legal parts. Thats why we all need help to see a doctor, financially.
ok maybe 2.5 cents there.
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The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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Analysis: Obama health care math doesn't add up
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