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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2009 : 16:37:58
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Copper cent is nearing 160% worth of copper in face value. Can we see 170% and then 180%,etc.? The market is teasing us.
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 17:04:21
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| It's inflation starting, and some positive news from copper users. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 17:08:18
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Copper climbs to five-week high
Chris Kelly and Rebekah Curtis, Reuters
New York, London — Copper prices climbed to a five-week high Friday, after an unexpected jump in U.S. home construction data in June boosted hopes for economic recovery.
Zinc and lead both rose more than 5 per cent, tracking gains in copper after the U.S. Commerce Department reported construction of new homes rose to a seven-month high.
Copper for September delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange's Comex division gained 3.35 cents (U.S.) to close at $2.4230 a pound, after dealing between $2.3670 and $2.4390 – a new high dating back to June 12.
The big boost in U.S. housing permits coupled with weakness in the U.S. dollar and a strong expansion in China's economy combined to drive the price of copper up nearly 10 per cent on the week, said Michael Pento, chief economist with Delta Global Advisors.
“An upper-cut, a left hook, and a body blow ... what a three-punch combination to power copper up through its $2.40 resistance level,” he said.
On the London Metal Exchange (LME) three-month copper closed up $50 at $5,310 a tonne, after hitting a five-week high at $5,351.
The U.S. dollar pared gains to provide further support as it makes dollar-priced metals less expensive.
Despite the stronger tone this week, analysts still remained cautious about further upside price potential.
“Is it all built on a foundation of sand?” asked Calyon analyst Robin Bhar. “[Copper] will struggle to sustain these prices over the coming couple of months.”
Copper stocks at LME warehouses rose 3,275 tonnes to 264,150 tonnes from levels around 500,000 tonnes in early April.
Concerns about nearby supplies have arisen because LME data for some days now has shown a dominant position controlling between 50 per cent and 80 per cent of LME stocks.
The worry is reflected the premium, or backwardation, of about $10 a tonne for LME cash copper over the three-month contract. This compares to a contango of $14.50 on July 8.
“The backwardation [isn't] a sign that consumption is strong. There are genuine concerns about long-term demand,” a trader said. “Backwardation is a function of nearby tightness in the market, short positions being rolled forward.”
Aluminum closed at $1,708 from Thursday's last bid at $1,690. Earlier, the metal used in transport and packaging hit $1,735, the highest since early December 2008.
Cancelled warrants – material tagged for delivery – rose to 152,500 tonnes from 138,100 tonnes. Traders say this material is probably heading for Chinese government stockpiles.
But dampening sentiment was news that aluminum stocks rose to a record high above 4.5 million tonnes.
Zinc closed at $1,619 from Thursday's last bid at $1,549, having earlier hit a three-week high of $1,640. Battery material lead was untraded at the close but was last bid at $1,670 from $1,620, having hit an earlier high of $1,705.
Nickel closed at $16,125 from $16,100.
Tin was untraded at the close but was last bid at $13,240 from Thursday's last bid of $13,025. Worries about nearby supplies of tin have pushed the premium for cash material over the three-month contract to $150 a tonne from a discount of around $40 a tonne mid-June.
Traders are concerned about the scale of long positions in the tin market, compared with the amount of available metal in LME warehouses.
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Think positive. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 10:45:54
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Even in an overall global economic constriction.....the price is rising.....this is a sign of inflation (fiat weakness). Do not pay too much attention to the USDollar Index....it is a measure of all sinking (inflation) currencies.
We will see $5/lb copper inside 2 years.....$10/lb inside 5 years.....$20/lb inside 10 years.
It cost us $1.50/lb to hoard.
I'll start to exit when I can get a solid 5X.....prefer 10X so will hold back and only exit about 30% to 50% at 5X......
Remember - a BK Whopper and a gallon of milk will also be nearing 5X to 10X at that time....so no advantage (other than you hold sound money).....UNLESS YOU HOLD A FIXED LONG TERM DEBT = MORTGAGE that you can retire using your conversion of pennies to inflated FRNs.
Don't live debt free. I'm anti Dave Ramsey in this respect. Cessna sez: live frugal, save hard, go for maximum mortgage at lowest rate as long as possible = profit from inflation. |
Edited by - c140cessna on 07/19/2009 11:57:18 |
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 11:23:47
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| this show that we all need to keep getting all the copper that we can before the rest of the world figure out what we are doing |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 12:01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by c140cessna
Even in an overall global econimic constriction.....the price is rising.....this is a sign of inflation (fiat weakness). Do not pay too much attention to the USDollar Index....it is a measure of all sinking (inflation) currencies.
We will see $5/lb copper inside 2 years.....$10/lb inside 5 years.....$20/lb inside 10 years.
It cost us $1.50/lb to hoard.
I'll start to exit when I can get a solid 5X.....prefer 10X so will hold back and only exit about 30% to 50% at 5X......
Remember - a BK Whopper and a gallon of milk will also be nearing 5X to 10X at that time....so no advantage (other than you hold sound money).....UNLESS YOU HOLD A FIXED LONG TERM DEBT = MORTGAGE that you can retire using your conversion of pennies to inflated FRNs.
Don't live debt free. I'm anti Dave Ramsey in this respect. Cessna sez: live frugal, save hard, go for maximum mortgage at lowest rate as long as possible = profit from inflation.
Don't count on the rules not being changed on your mortgage debt. That's why being out of debt is better. Who's to say that the government and banks will not renegotiate your loans and make you pay more than you think. Debt is slavery to the financial system. |
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– Theodore Roosevelt
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 23:16:20
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| Country, if the banks did that it would anger too many people, and many would quit paying all together. The banks aren't stupid, in a period of inflation they would lower cash reserves and store their asset's in commodities, such as gold and oil. I say live within your means, be frugal, and realize that there is good debt and bad debt. Good debt is capital investment, fixing up a house before expecting to sell it, a mortgage, and things such as that. Bad debt = credit card debt, getting loans for things you cannot afford, you get the picture... |
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 23:55:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by c140cessna
Even in an overall global econimic constriction.....the price is rising.....this is a sign of inflation (fiat weakness). Do not pay too much attention to the USDollar Index....it is a measure of all sinking (inflation) currencies.
We will see $5/lb copper inside 2 years.....$10/lb inside 5 years.....$20/lb inside 10 years.
It cost us $1.50/lb to hoard.
I'll start to exit when I can get a solid 5X.....prefer 10X so will hold back and only exit about 30% to 50% at 5X......
Remember - a BK Whopper and a gallon of milk will also be nearing 5X to 10X at that time....so no advantage (other than you hold sound money).....UNLESS YOU HOLD A FIXED LONG TERM DEBT = MORTGAGE that you can retire using your conversion of pennies to inflated FRNs.
Don't live debt free. I'm anti Dave Ramsey in this respect. Cessna sez: live frugal, save hard, go for maximum mortgage at lowest rate as long as possible = profit from inflation.
Don't count on the rules not being changed on your mortgage debt. That's why being out of debt is better. Who's to say that the government and banks will not renegotiate your loans and make you pay more than you think. Debt is slavery to the financial system.
I think its important to manage your debt, but I will hold off on paying mine down until the dollar really starts to devalue. Understand that a fixed rate loan is a contract that cannot by violated on a whim. Of course we must be careful not to wait too long, because if the dollar completely collapses all bets are off. |
Edited by - theo on 07/19/2009 23:56:23 |
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biglouddrunk
Penny Pincher Member
138 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 21:39:39
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| I think it will be about a year before we see inflation. Asset valuation going down and high unemployment are off-setting the increased supply of money for now. I think copper is going up right now for 3 reasons. Investors are buy commodities on hope of an economic rebound. The second reason is industrial inventories have been fall for a while and probabily have reached as low as they can go. The third reason is the week dollar. It's not so much copper is going up, but the dollar is going down. |
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 21:54:59
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| This is all great. So when do we start seeing the penny sell at the melting price? Perhaps next year. |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 22:20:06
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Job.. we have already seen the penny sell at the melting price.. right here, a few months ago. But of course the melting price was much lower then.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 23:49:42
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| The problem is that too many mix bits and pieces of fact within the wrong context. i.e. USA inflation (USD devaluation) when the USA is still in deflation, and copper prices (which rose from demand in China) at a time when some economies are thriving while others are faltering. Easier said- Due to economic conditions, production has decreased (supply) while demand has horizontally shifted but still remains. The USA is not in an economic recovery... still deflationary. Inflation, on the other hand, will happen when consumption returns. Give it 2-3 years before this phase is in effect. Along the path of deflation, some small cycles of reflation are seen. These green shoots are simply targets of heavy doses of Roundup weed killer. They are sucker traps. |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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Cupronickel
Penny Pincher Member
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2009 : 20:45:52
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| I paid $2.65/lb last Friday 7/24/09, for #1 copper chops. |
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Mikep2020
Penny Collector Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2009 : 08:10:22
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| I'm keeping a eye more closely on the nickel melt value, it past 80% and is inching its way up to 85% right now. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a few dozen nickel bricks once its hits 100%. |
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JerrySpringer
Penny Hoarding Member
669 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 17:28:11
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| We passed 170% on copper cents. More cowbell? |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 17:43:01
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Yes! More Cowbell!
Are cowbells copper? |
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Computer Jones
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1112 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2009 : 11:39:28
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quote:
Originally posted by JerrySpringer
We passed 170% on copper cents. More cowbell?
I got the Fevah!!!
Go Cu Go!
Rah, Rah and a Sis-Boom Bah!
I NEED More Cowbell... |
There's profit if you melt things!!
8{> |
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Copper price inching up. What does that mean?
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