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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2009 : 12:09:12
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Legislation to be unveiled on July 13 would raise $540 billion over the next decade by setting a 1 percent surtax on couples with more than $350,000 in annual income, said Representative Charles Rangel, chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee. Higher rates would take effect for those earning $500,000 and $1 million, Rangel said.
The plan the Ways and Means panel agreed on yesterday would require individuals to begin paying the surtax when their income hits $280,000, with higher rates taking effect when those incomes reach $400,000, and again when they hit $800,000.
It would be levied on adjusted gross income...
How many people will these tax increases effect? According to the latest available census info, there are 1.5% of the US households with gross income $250,000 or more. That means these tax increases will not directly effect 98.5% of all US households. Folks making $280,000 to $400,000 can certainly afford an extra 1% tax to help pay for the Healthcare bill.
I guess you can make the case that government beurocacy is going to screw up what we have now. Further, the cost of the health care reform will be costly, probably more than the $540 Billion raised by these tax increases over the next decade.
I still believe that the health care we have in the US has to be reformed. I don't know if the current proposals will work, but I think it's time to try something different to make healthcare more affordable for people living in the USA.
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---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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Edited by - Country on 07/13/2009 12:15:25 |
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country_bumpkin
Penny Sorter Member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 12:30:14
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Well, like a famous man once said: FROM each according to his ability, TO each according to his need.
Get ready for Fannie Mae health care. You're gonna love it. |
“He who goes a-borrowing, goes a-sorrowing.”
- Benjamin Franklin |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 16:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
Folks making $280,000 to $400,000 can certainly afford an extra 1% tax to help pay for the Healthcare bill.
Where in the universe is it written that a household that makes $280k or more is responsible for paying for somebody else's health care??? Just because somebody can afford it, doesn't mean it is their duty to do so.
That is pure commie/socialist collectivism Bull S%$^.
quote:
I still believe that the health care we have in the US has to be reformed. I don't know if the current proposals will work, but I think it's time to try something different to make healthcare more affordable for people living in the USA.
Yes, how about the God Damn government stop meddling in every facet of human life. There was a time when health care affordability wasn't a problem. It was also the same time Ma Ma government wasn't involved...
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 16:42:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
quote:
Originally posted by Country
Folks making $280,000 to $400,000 can certainly afford an extra 1% tax to help pay for the Healthcare bill.
Where in the universe is it written that a household that makes $280k or more is responsible for paying for somebody else's health care??? Just because somebody can afford it, doesn't mean it is their duty to do so.
That is pure commie/socialist collectivism Bull S%$^.
quote:
I still believe that the health care we have in the US has to be reformed. I don't know if the current proposals will work, but I think it's time to try something different to make healthcare more affordable for people living in the USA.
Yes, how about the God Damn government stop meddling in every facet of human life. There was a time when health care affordability wasn't a problem. It was also the same time Ma Ma government wasn't involved...
I think you are just looking out for Number 1 here.
I remember the time when government was less involved in the health care during the 1950's. My father was a small town doctor. Many folks could not pay the doctor, some could but did not. My father accepted what these folks had to offer. Churches and some of the wealthy folks helped the poor in those days.
You can make the case that the government has botched things in the intervening years. Do you think that doctors would help the poor and the sick today as they did 50 years ago? I think you don't believe that you should be responsible for the indigent, elderly, or sick in a community, should we just let these people die? I think there were too many people that felt the same selfish way that caused the government to step in with their massive programs. Since you feel the government should get out of the way, how would you handle this problem?
What about Social Security and Medicare. Will your mother or grandmother be willing to refuse Social Security and Medicare? Will YOU be willing to care for all their needs without government program assistance or support?
If you feel that our government is so misguided, why don't you write to the IRS and say you are no longer going to pay taxes to support their socialist programs? |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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Edited by - Country on 07/13/2009 17:19:21 |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 17:57:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Country
quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
quote:
Originally posted by Country
Folks making $280,000 to $400,000 can certainly afford an extra 1% tax to help pay for the Healthcare bill.
Where in the universe is it written that a household that makes $280k or more is responsible for paying for somebody else's health care??? Just because somebody can afford it, doesn't mean it is their duty to do so.
That is pure commie/socialist collectivism Bull S%$^.
quote:
I still believe that the health care we have in the US has to be reformed. I don't know if the current proposals will work, but I think it's time to try something different to make healthcare more affordable for people living in the USA.
Yes, how about the God Damn government stop meddling in every facet of human life. There was a time when health care affordability wasn't a problem. It was also the same time Ma Ma government wasn't involved...
I think you are just looking out for Number 1 here.
I remember the time when government was less involved in the health care during the 1950's. My father was a small town doctor. Many folks could not pay the doctor, some could but did not. My father accepted what these folks had to offer. Churches and some of the wealthy folks helped the poor in those days.
You can make the case that the government has botched things in the intervening years. Do you think that doctors would help the poor and the sick today as they did 50 years ago? I think you don't believe that you should be responsible for the indigent, elderly, or sick in a community, should we just let these people die? I think there were too many people that felt the same selfish way that caused the government to step in with their massive programs. Since you feel the government should get out of the way, how would you handle this problem?
What about Social Security and Medicare. Will your mother or grandmother be willing to refuse Social Security and Medicare? Will YOU be willing to care for all their needs without government program assistance or support?
If you feel that our government is so misguided, why don't you write to the IRS and say you are no longer going to pay taxes to support their socialist programs?
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 17:59:19
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| Sounds like a plan. Canada is only a few hours away |
Trolling is an art. |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 18:11:02
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Guys, if you want to reform health care, go after the lawyers. I lost several doctors over the last few yeas because of outrageous malpractice insurance (with no claims). One doc says his' premiums were $120K per year. Yes, the insurance companies can afford to take a hit on that too, but in PA one woman sued her OBGYN (and won!) because she had a boy and wanted a girl. ---- uhhh... what was the doctor supposed to do about that?
So big deal the "rich" doctor makes $360K per year and gives a third to insurance companies.
Now neither party addresses the issue in a realistic way. Democrats want to do nothing, protecting lawyers and insurance companies, and republicans once talked about capping all suits at 250K. Tell that to someone who is blind for life because of a real malpractice. Many billions are spent every year because of this crap, and that drives up the cost of healthcare.
I'm for fixing healthcare and I'd start by penalizing frivolous lawsuits and in my language that means using some common sense both in the suit and the damages. A hangnail just ain't worth a 50K settlement, but it happens. |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 18:24:09
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Oh Comrade, where do I start with your love of Ma Ma Government mentality…
First lets start off with me saying I do not have health insurance. I don’t want it either. Never.
I came to my senses in my mid twenties about what a scam health insurance is, along with the whole Medical Industrial Complex for that matter. The premiums I would have paid for a decent policy I instead, put in a separate savings account. I have 20 plus years of monthly payments that are in my account. Look at what you’re paying and do the math.
It is my money. Mine to do as I want, invest it if I want, it is mine, not an insurance companies. I will, and have paid cash out of my pocket for medical bills. After all those years of making payments into a special separate savings account, I have money. What would I have had made those same payments to Blue Cross instead? Nothing but a lot of invoices…
The one time I had to actually go to urgent care, I told them I didn’t have insurance. They billed me a different rate than if I had insurance…
11 years ago I pulled a Tim Taylor with a table saw. I was working long hours cramming to get a job done before the holidays. Bad idea. As you can guess, when your exhausted one is more accident prone. I almost cut the tip of my thumb clean off. I cut the bone and the tip was hanging on the fleshy part of my nail bed.
Nobodies fault but my own. I didn’t feel I needed to sue somebody. But that’s another topic for another day.
I had somebody drive me to urgent care, I lost a fair amount of blood and was feeling a little too woozy to consider my self safe to drive.
The clinic gave me a local to kill the pain, took an x-ray, cleaned the wound, stitched it back up and sent me home with some pain killers and antibiotics. A week later a I had a follow up visit for removal of the stitches. The whole bill was a little over $400.
I can only imagine what they would have billed Blue Cross… And what Blue Cross would have done to me after that claim was paid.
I provided for myself. I prepared. I did it on my own. I am self reliant.
If somebody can’t afford life’s bills, they are living beyond their means, how is that my problem?
If they didn’t apply themselves, get an education, or learn a trade to better provide for their futures, how is that my problem?
If somebody didn’t prepare for life’s ups and downs, how is that my problem?
Somebody doesn’t take responsibility for their own welfare and security. How is that my problem?
As far as letting the elderly and sick just die. Well, if they didn’t provide and plan for themselves and their futures, and prepare for such contingencies, again, how is that my problem?
Not that that would happen.
Americans are the most charitable people on this planet. If somebody was truly down on their luck, charity would help. Be it in the form of a charitable organization, a church, private donors, trust funds, whatever.
Problem with that, is that you have to prove that you’re truly in need, and not a scammer or welfare rat. These charities, churches and private donor’s wont give their money and/or service’s to just anybody. They will want to see genuine need. Sometimes you would be expected to return the favor by volunteering yourself, or doing some work to help out.
That’s how it used to be done. Worked pretty decent too.
Not so with Ma Ma government. Just look at the current welfare ranks. It speaks volumes for itself. I could write a thesis giving examples of how mandatory government sponsored charity has failed over and over again.
Look at how well Medicaid and Medicare are working out…
The notion that too many “selfish people” like myself caused the “benevolent caring” Ma Ma government to step in with massive socialism is so laughable my eyes are watering. That comment borders on troll like… You have no idea what charitable things I have or haven’t done in my life. Let’s just say I now know why they say “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”.
As far as Social Security. Anybody who is capable of even remedial independent thought would quickly come to the realization it is a God Damn Ponzi scheme. Identical to Mr. Madoff’s shenanigans. Bernie goes to jail, the politicians get reelected. The sheeple clamor for more.
As far as refusing Social Security, my generation (Gen-X) and subsequent generations don’t have to worry about that. Because it won’t be there for us. But we are told by the threat of a gun in the face from the Imperial State that we must pay into it. Being self employed more than not, I have to pay into that racket twice.
My grandparents, my parents, and I, would gladly refuse to receive payments if we didn’t have to pay into it against our will. That saved money could have been used to provide for our retirements as we saw fit.
Actually, we already have and do provide for our own welfare above and beyond Social Security. So yes I would, and am, prepared to support them and myself with out Ma Ma government.
Yes, you are correct, I am looking out for number 1. You should too instead of waiting for Ma Ma government to do it for you.
I don’t remember who said it, “Lack of preparation on you’re part does not constitute an emergency on my part”. Amen.
You want to live in collectivist statist Marxist culture? Tithe all you’re money over to The State, along with all your fellow leftists. Then ask Ma Ma government to provide for you and the rest of your group. The rest of us will take care of ourselves as we see fit…
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 06:28:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
Oh Comrade, where do I start with your love of Ma Ma Government mentality…
First lets start off with me saying I do not have health insurance. I don’t want it either. Never.
I came to my senses in my mid twenties about what a scam health insurance is, along with the whole Medical Industrial Complex for that matter. The premiums I would have paid for a decent policy I instead, put in a separate savings account. I have 20 plus years of monthly payments that are in my account. Look at what you’re paying and do the math.
It is my money. Mine to do as I want, invest it if I want, it is mine, not an insurance companies. I will, and have paid cash out of my pocket for medical bills. After all those years of making payments into a special separate savings account, I have money. What would I have had made those same payments to Blue Cross instead? Nothing but a lot of invoices…
The one time I had to actually go to urgent care, I told them I didn’t have insurance. They billed me a different rate than if I had insurance…
11 years ago I pulled a Tim Taylor with a table saw. I was working long hours cramming to get a job done before the holidays. Bad idea. As you can guess, when your exhausted one is more accident prone. I almost cut the tip of my thumb clean off. I cut the bone and the tip was hanging on the fleshy part of my nail bed.
Nobodies fault but my own. I didn’t feel I needed to sue somebody. But that’s another topic for another day.
I had somebody drive me to urgent care, I lost a fair amount of blood and was feeling a little too woozy to consider my self safe to drive.
The clinic gave me a local to kill the pain, took an x-ray, cleaned the wound, stitched it back up and sent me home with some pain killers and antibiotics. A week later a I had a follow up visit for removal of the stitches. The whole bill was a little over $400.
I can only imagine what they would have billed Blue Cross… And what Blue Cross would have done to me after that claim was paid.
I provided for myself. I prepared. I did it on my own. I am self reliant.
If somebody can’t afford life’s bills, they are living beyond their means, how is that my problem?
If they didn’t apply themselves, get an education, or learn a trade to better provide for their futures, how is that my problem?
If somebody didn’t prepare for life’s ups and downs, how is that my problem?
Somebody doesn’t take responsibility for their own welfare and security. How is that my problem?
As far as letting the elderly and sick just die. Well, if they didn’t provide and plan for themselves and their futures, and prepare for such contingencies, again, how is that my problem?
Not that that would happen.
Americans are the most charitable people on this planet. If somebody was truly down on their luck, charity would help. Be it in the form of a charitable organization, a church, private donors, trust funds, whatever.
Problem with that, is that you have to prove that you’re truly in need, and not a scammer or welfare rat. These charities, churches and private donor’s wont give their money and/or service’s to just anybody. They will want to see genuine need. Sometimes you would be expected to return the favor by volunteering yourself, or doing some work to help out.
That’s how it used to be done. Worked pretty decent too.
Not so with Ma Ma government. Just look at the current welfare ranks. It speaks volumes for itself. I could write a thesis giving examples of how mandatory government sponsored charity has failed over and over again.
Look at how well Medicaid and Medicare are working out…
The notion that too many “selfish people” like myself caused the “benevolent caring” Ma Ma government to step in with massive socialism is so laughable my eyes are watering. That comment borders on troll like… You have no idea what charitable things I have or haven’t done in my life. Let’s just say I now know why they say “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”.
As far as Social Security. Anybody who is capable of even remedial independent thought would quickly come to the realization it is a God Damn Ponzi scheme. Identical to Mr. Madoff’s shenanigans. Bernie goes to jail, the politicians get reelected. The sheeple clamor for more.
As far as refusing Social Security, my generation (Gen-X) and subsequent generations don’t have to worry about that. Because it won’t be there for us. But we are told by the threat of a gun in the face from the Imperial State that we must pay into it. Being self employed more than not, I have to pay into that racket twice.
My grandparents, my parents, and I, would gladly refuse to receive payments if we didn’t have to pay into it against our will. That saved money could have been used to provide for our retirements as we saw fit.
Actually, we already have and do provide for our own welfare above and beyond Social Security. So yes I would, and am, prepared to support them and myself with out Ma Ma government.
Yes, you are correct, I am looking out for number 1. You should too instead of waiting for Ma Ma government to do it for you.
I don’t remember who said it, “Lack of preparation on you’re part does not constitute an emergency on my part”. Amen.
You want to live in collectivist statist Marxist culture? Tithe all you’re money over to The State, along with all your fellow leftists. Then ask Ma Ma government to provide for you and the rest of your group. The rest of us will take care of ourselves as we see fit…
::::Clap, clap, clap::::
Wow Bluegill. What a way to lay it out. Excelent post.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 07:36:01
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quote:
::::Clap, clap, clap::::
Wow Bluegill. What a way to lay it out. Excelent post.
Deal
Ditto...
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 09:28:28
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Compassion
(Luke 10:30-37) Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’ Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?" He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise." |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 13:02:43
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| Apparently the health care crisis caused the deficit |
Trolling is an art. |
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Healthcare Bill Will Raise Taxes, Then Raise Again
Forum Locked
