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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
 Posted - 06/29/2009 : 08:37:49
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I've been a handgun owner for close to a year and due to the fact I live in the city and haven't hunted since I was about 9 (right before my family started moving from one big city to another), I've had basically zilch experience with long guns. The more I'm reading about .22 rifles and the more I realize that .22LR is about the only ammo I can consistently find dirt-cheap, this would probably be a very good investment, especially WTSHTF and every other caliber of ammo is out of stock. Just wanted to get everyone's feedback and advice on this.
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2009 : 09:26:46
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Sounds like you already drew a logical conclusion from your reading.   Not much to add but agree.
I have a pair of Marlin 60's. You can find them used for cheap in excellent condition all day long at any good gun show. Or you can buy a new one if you want. The same can be said for the Ruger 10-22. Both semi autos and both good guns.
Of course there are also bolt, lever and pump models available new and used in just about any price range you want.
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2009 : 17:42:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kurr
what he said. And a marlin 60 or ruger 10/22 are both top notch, and loaded with cci stingers aint no joke either. You can get 50 and maybe 90 rnd drums fir the 10/22.
What he said. A .22 is a must. I have one, a Remmington Viper (it's okay, limited on magazine capacity to 12-13 with modifications), but thinking on another. I had a Ruger 10/22 and plan on getting another.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 06:35:47
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Huh. I have a Remington Viper gun, not ammo. Put Vipers in the Viper....
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 10:48:19
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Not sure about actual prices, but if the prices are close get the Winchester for sure. CCI is okay, heck I've bought/shot some myself, but if you ask me Winchester is a better quality ammo.
Deal
p.s. .223 ammo is WAY more plentiful now around here than 9mm. It was just the opposite two or three months ago. |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 11:09:41
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| My bad, Deal, I meant that the prices looked comparable between the CCI .22LR and the Winchester 9mm. I haven't seen the same caliber for both brands, I was just talking about per-unit price comparison. Frankly, though, given the choice, do you think it would be better to get the .22LR just because of the range advantage, or would you opt for 9mm if you had a choice between the two. I can see advantages to both, namely that with the rifle ammo you have the advantage of distance, whereas with the 9mm you have the stopping power, so not that it's an apples-to-apples comparison, but if the per-unit price was the same, from a strategic standpoint, which ammo would you buy if both were available at the same price per unit? |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 13:19:21
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Stopping power? Go headshots. Double or triple tap. Period.
I hate this part of the discussion because I don't like to consider killing humans.
But in the interest, lets go this way. The millitary has a differant viewpoint than the law enforcement and differant from civilians, each shoot for a differant reason and for a differant purpose. The millitary is facing multiple targets under differing numbers than what the cop on the street or you and me would. It was explained to me that the basics were in combat a soldier will step over a fallen comrade to charge your position. You have definatly killed 1 person and his buddues are shooting at you. IF HOW EVER you use a smaller caliber round and don't kill him, as a center mass shot is want to do around hips, legs, and lower torso, then you have removed him from the battlefield, and at least 2 people to carry him off and medical teams tied up, money sunk into him, and various psychological trauma visited upon his fellow friends and soldiers, as well as the moral effect on the civilian population from seeing another wounded/maimed vet return home. From a strategical standpoint such as this, an "almost killed him" is better than a "1 shot 1 kill" scenario. See in war you aint tryin to kill em all, just make it not worth it or too exspensive to the opposing forces. This I feel is one reason the millitary went from .308/30-06 style rounds to .223 and from a proven manstopper .45 to the .9mm
Law enforcement varies in objective because of the situation and charter to protect the public at large. Notice law enforcement tended to prefer .357 and .45 though many departments issued .38, even today many officers prefer the .40 to the 9mm, due to stopping ppower where their departments allow them a choice of carry options. They want to stop usually a Much smaller unit than an army, usualy 1 person that poses an immediate threat to those around him. The fire center mass to immediatly remove the threat the suspect is imposing. The suspect is stopped, usually the "wind knocked out of em" and they can be further subdued to stand trial or buried. Threat nuetralised, center mass fire ensures less chance of a miss and collateral damage on civilians, and less psychological damage to witnesses than seeing someone get the back of their head blown out. They too fire what they need to, to where they need to, to accomplice their objective within the balance of needs for their situation.
I am not limited by these requirements or restrictions. If I have to fire it is because my/my family/another law abiding citizens life is in clear and immediate danger with no other alternitive presenting itself to delay the use of force. My only position is to secure the saftey of myself and others around me, immediatly. Always head shots, I dont care if I am holding a 12 ga, If I get a chance to aim, that is where I am aiming.
Normal .22 travels at 1200fps, Subsonics a few hundred fps slower and hyper velocities about 14-16 I think. Stingers are the Hypers and ballisticly speaking kinetic energy wise are comparable to mini-mags. Also If you are in an urban enviroment, everyone rocognises a big cal gun going off. A .22 can be mistacken for hammering, firecrackers or alot of things and dismissed.
And another thing, because of the 40 grain lead and kinetics involved, a big gun may fire and blow a big impressive looking hole through you, but a .22 tends to hit things and bounce around inside without having all the energy necessary to exit, shredding soft tissue.
Mmmmm what was my point again? Oh ya, forget about guys that make a living of writing and encouraging debates on "stopping power" no matter what they say or how technical it sounds. We aren't the cops. We aren't the millitary. We are citizens legally protecting our rights, property, and lives of other law abiding citizens. Headshots put things down.
EDIT: I read the opening statement again, and If you haven't hunted since you were 9 or so, man season comes in for squirrels august 15th and runs 6 months long here in Indiana. I got some .22's and a 12 ga. $17 for a huntin license and I'd be happy to get together with ya sometime. I love small game hunting, and squirrels is tasty. |
The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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Edited by - Kurr on 07/03/2009 13:23:47 |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 16:31:55
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Kurr, you are absolutly correct. Great post.
Nickelless, this probably won't help, but buy it all!
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 18:57:15
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If I'm reading correctly, it sounds like you're thinking of using a 22LR as your primary anti homo sapiens gun. Not a good idea at all. Yes it can do the job done in a pinch, but bad idea nevertheless.
If you use a 22LR rifle for what it is intended for (small game-varmint control), you don't really need the high end Stingers or Vipers for ammo. Standard velocity round nose lead will do the trick just fine. It's cheap and with a head shot will still drop a bad guy or girl (within reasonable range).
If you want a rifle to effectively kill two legged vermin (homo sapiens), get a rifle chambered for a readily available cartridge designed for such unpleasantries.
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Edited by - Bluegill on 07/03/2009 18:59:04 |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 20:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Kurr
I don't pay for the quality either. I buy the 500 or 550 bricks.
Yep. More bang for the buck.
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 02:05:55
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Kurr, you and I are totally on the same page. I feel very uneasy thinking about the necessity of ever having to kill another person, and quite frankly at this point I'd feel less uneasy killing someone who was trying to kill someone else than I would if they were trying to kill me. I have no fears about dying, but I can't imagine not protecting another innocent person from getting killed.
Having said that, I want to understand all the tools I have and all the tools I might acquire. I might never use some of them in situations where they are intended to be used, but I want to know what to do with them and how and when to use them properly IF that time ever comes.
With regard to .22LR, I'm just thinking very big-picture. Can't say I'd likely run into a situation in the city or on my property where a .22LR would be preferable to a 12-gauge or 9mm, but I just want to be able to understand all aspects of the big picture so that I'll know what to do in any and every situation, even if I haven't encountered it yet.
EDIT: Kurr, I think I'll take you up on getting together for varmint hunting. That'd be a good opportunity for me to start learning the ropes with long guns. |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
Edited by - Nickelless on 07/04/2009 04:18:46 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 11:08:23
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Bolts are thought to be generaly more accurate, although depending on the rifle you may have to break line of site with your target to chamber another round.
I have had a remington pump .22, fine rifle but the firing pin broke and mom needs to have a new one machined apparently. I have never had a lever action but they are a proven design.
Of the three types you mentioned they have one VERY nice thing in common, Tubular Magazines! This means they generaly will hold ALOT more rounds for you on a stock rifle, no magazines to lose, and most magazine laws exempt them. I use a JC Higgins bolt .22 naked and a scoped 10/22 now. |
The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?
KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 17:18:02
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Definitly the Ruger 10/22. 50 round mags!
Sweet revolver...
Taurus MODEL 4510 .45/.410 (3" CHAMBER) MATTE STAINLESS REVOLVER
Shoots .410 gauge shotshels as well as Colt .45
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Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
+637 posts |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 19:58:42
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quote:
Kurr
I love small game hunting, and squirrels is tasty.
Thought you'd like to a picture of one my friend and I bagged.
Kinda small for around here though...
Do you like my scoped AK-47...???
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 21:10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
Is the 4510 the "Judge" model?
Yes, the ultimate survival revolver?
Its in my list. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
+637 posts |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 21:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jtm3
quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
Is the 4510 the "Judge" model?
Yes, the ultimate survival revolver?
In my opinion it is not the ultimate survival revolver.
It is heavy and bulky.
Not easy to carry, conceal or aim.
Since it is not a .45 or .410 shotgun it lacks refinement of a properly designed gun.
At best, it a conversation piece.If it were all that great everybody would be making and using them.
If survival to you means putting meat on the table,then a .22 should do.
If survival to you means stopping a two legged critter, then its hard to beat a .45 auto.
My suggestion would be to try before you buy...
>
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jtm3
Penny Pincher Member
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2009 : 21:57:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Kurr
LOL, I like that!
I don't care for the .410 aspet of the revolver but saw ".410 handgun" ammo in 000 buck. 3 or 4 pellets each shell. If I am defending myself, I don't want to blind and injure, I want the full .45 long colt, better than a .410 slug.
Heres a nice piece on a survival pistol, although I would have went with browning buckmark off the top of my head. You must be logged in to see this link.
And have you seen rugers new toy? You must be logged in to see this link.
In the video on the website it is claimed to be a great in-vehicle personal safety gun.
They do a simulation of a car jacking and show the target just outside the passenger window. That thing will do more than blind and injure. But I love its verstility. |
Copper Cent Hoarding Wiki
coppercenthoarding.wikia.com
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Looking for advice on .22 long rifles
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