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scooter
Penny Pincher Member
240 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2009 : 16:19:35
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i ve been thinking about this for a while and im intrested in what you guys think.
I am 26 and i live within my means. Ive never applied for a credit card. I never want one. If i can not afford to buy a home or car cash i dont feel i can afford it.
So my thoughts are before this dollar gets its butt whooped from endless inflation, why not blow my credit as bad as possible on precious metals and let the monster credit companies eat it,
Money is debt anyways and debt is built into the system so why not use fake money to store some wealth?
im really intrested in what you guys think.
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Edited by - Nickelless on 05/24/2009 23:23:32 |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 16:23:57
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So you want to steal it?
If I loan you 50K and you buy PM's with it and never pay me back you stole 50K from me. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 16:41:14
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This is what happens when parents (The Federal government) set a bad example. Kinda like the public service announcement commercial where the father confronts his son with the drugs he found.
Father: "Where did you learn to do this stuff!?!"
Son: "I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU, DAD!"
I feel your pain Scooter..I really do. Similar thoughts have crossed my mind as well. But remember, money is fleeting, your honor and integrity are forever.
Don't do it.
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"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2009 : 17:33:37
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Scooter,
The SHTF scenario may never happen and the dollar may survive for many years. Say there's a 50/50 chance that it won't. Well, hell you're young, and if your smart you'll figure out a way to survive just fine without the PMs.
Don't screw up your credit!! Buy PMs with fiat that your acquire as you work hard in whatever career you are pursuing. PMs will accumulate over time; they will enable you to gain increasing independence from the financial system as you accumulate them. Think of them as a benefit of working hard during your life. The longer you work, the more benefits you accumulate.
PMs are just a way to preserve your wealth; your buying power if all hell breaks lose. You may not need to preserve your wealth that you have now; preserving your health and stamina may be more important in a crisis. For older folks, they need the PMs because they will not be able to recover from a SHTF scenario; their youth is in the past.
By the way, applying for a credit card is OK. Be a credit card Freeloader, make creditors pay you. It's how you have power over credit that counts  , rather than credit putting you in debt slavery. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 19:44:41
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I wouldnt' do it.
credit card companies probably wouldnt extend you much credit anyways. takes time to build. |
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scooter
Penny Pincher Member
240 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 22:06:42
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im not going to do it. I have to say i only think about it because i see people all the time not making responsible decisions and going deep into debt. Then they just claim bankruptcy.
Mean while people like us save money and follow the rules.
Delawhere is right on the money about my motivations.
I want anyone who thinks my statement makes me a thief. Take a deeper look at our system
and you will realize that the rules do not apply. People do not go to jail over debt.
We have a fractional reserve banking system and money is created out of thin air.
Its very simple the dominant dominate.People that want to be perfect people according to society are stepped over and if we all just step back you realize
People go into debt everyday over absolute crap, items and things that dont matter.
I never want credit anyways. If you need it your living outside your means.
So really why not accumulate the same debt over time but use there soft money to store hard money.The system almost invites it.
just because im not doing it ,i dont feel there is any reason to feel like i would be comprimising my morals. Its naive as thinking one pice of garbage effects the worlds enviorment. Its not anti american, I love America. It is the imf ,fed reserve that are stealing from us, i really have no problem using there little scam notes against them. |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 22:09:40
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| Plus it's a pain in the ass to purchase a home without a long history of credit. =/ |
Trolling is an art. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 22:28:51
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I think that if you intentions are to get credit cards or loans knowing that you never intent on paying back is wrong. That is why I said you would just be stealing money.
Now if you apply for credit and have full intentions of paying it back but for some unseen reason you can no longer pay and you default that is different. You still owe them the money but it wasn't borrowed under false pretences. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 22:31:34
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well make sure you do research, and that they are the ones that'll be screwed, and not you. I'm no expert in bankruptcy, but not all your debts will be discharged and you need to watch your assets.
It would suck to rack up debt & interest and not be able to discharge them in bankruptcy or with a nominal payment to the collection agency.
Consider how much income you make and the length of time you've been employed. Like I said earlier, it's not even worth doing if they're going to offer you $500 limit. If you're looking at $10k or more, then maybe. |
Edited by - buyingsilvers on 05/24/2009 22:36:13 |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 22:47:48
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quote:
Originally posted by scooter
im not going to do it. I have to say i only think about it because i see people all the time not making responsible decisions and going deep into debt. Then they just claim bankruptcy.
Mean while people like us save money and follow the rules.
Delawhere is right on the money about my motivations.
I want anyone who thinks my statement makes me a thief. Take a deeper look at our system
and you will realize that the rules do not apply. People do not go to jail over debt.
We have a fractional reserve banking system and money is created out of thin air.
Its very simple the dominant dominate.People that want to be perfect people according to society are stepped over and if we all just step back you realize
People go into debt everyday over absolute crap, items and things that dont matter.
I never want credit anyways. If you need it your living outside your means.
So really why not accumulate the same debt over time but use there soft money to store hard money.The system almost invites it.
just because im not doing it ,i dont feel there is any reason to feel like i would be comprimising my morals. Its naive as thinking one pice of garbage effects the worlds enviorment. Its not anti american, I love America. It is the imf ,fed reserve that are stealing from us, i really have no problem using there little scam notes against them.
If it's any comfort, keep in mind that most of the sheeple living beyond their means are miserable on a daily basis. They are very much like drug addicts. They know, subliminally if not consciously, that they are living a lie. Most of them need to aquire more and more STUFF, because their souls are hollow vessels. (Not to get all religious, it's just the best way I know to describe them).
What is going on now with all the bailouts.. the attempts to reinflate the bubble(s), etc, are the death throws of an unsustainable fantasy world culture. Hold your head high and be glad that you've got better sense than the great unwashed masses. Sure, those of us who have been responsible will get nicked to some extent to cover their aZZes, but that WILL NOT go on for long.
I understand the frustration you feel, but think of it this way. If you know better, and you just say "screw it", I'm gonna get mine, then you are no better than the sheeple.
You've made the right choice. You are honorable, the system is not. Fight the system, don't compromise yourself in dispair. IT CAN BE DONE! What we need is for enough of us to make so much commotion (read into that what you may), that THEY fear us more than anything else under the sun.
Finally. A principled, cogent individual, with the power of righteousness behind him will be welcome in all the right circles, when the time comes. Don't think that PM's are a "Do-or-Die" necessity. Integrity and skills will be every bit as valuable as Gold in the times ahead.
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"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 23:22:53
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On the assumption that you would intend to pay back the money you'd borrow on credit to buy PMs now, you think you're buying PMs now at whatever low price you can find them at, but in reality you'll end up paying finance charges on the credit which would jack up what you pay. Like everyone above said, buy a little every week with cash you have on hand and don't put yourself in debt to buy PM. Little by little is how each one of us on here has built up our metal stashes (except for Hoard and Cessna, who don't do anything small). |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
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---------------
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Edited by - Nickelless on 05/25/2009 04:40:20 |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2009 : 23:41:44
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| If you buy PMs with a credit card and then go into bankruptcy, they are going to take the PMs to pay the debt. It would do nothing but mess up your credit and reputation, imo. Visa and the other big card companies are not going to go under. If they're even close, you can count on Comrade BHO to send a few billion their way. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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Silver Surfer
Penny Pincher Member
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 00:14:40
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Glad to read the comments here. You guys are honorable people. You can't go wrong if you do what is right.
scooter. Just start out buying a little silver at a time. Silver is still really affordable. Even if it hits $20/oz in the not too distant future, that's still not too bad for the average working man to afford. |
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 02:48:37
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Borrowing and not paying back is stealing - regardless of the circumstances. So your proposal is morally repugnant to me.
Another comment - borrowing is ok with me only under these circumstances:
1. I can turn around and make a higher rate of return, so long as:
a) the risk is very minimal on the investment
b) I can comfortably repay the loan from other sources
2. I am buying real estate that will either
a) provide income sufficent to service the debt and then some or
b) provide me shelter within my reasonable means
Borrowing is bad if:
1. It is to live, not invest in solid investments
2. I do not have multiple ways to repay the loan
Finally, like it or not good credit is critical to a successful life. Without good credit you will never buy a home (you'll never save enough to pay cash). Good credit is also required by many jobs, like real estate agent, bank officer). If you go bankrupt you can't be a director of a company in my province, so forget owning your own business. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 09:12:10
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quote:
Finally, like it or not good credit is critical to a successful life. Without good credit you will never buy a home (you'll never save enough to pay cash).
FALSE...
Credit when buying a home or anything else makes you a indentured slave to the money changers.
$120,000 home,30 yr. mortgage at 8% = $316,987 = 2.64 times the original amount.
Enough money can saved to buy small home.
One does not have to keep up with the Jones's and their Mc Mansion to be a happy home owner.
Live within your means and worry not.
> |
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
441 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 10:30:50
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8% is a high rate. Consider a 20% downpayment at 5% interest. Personally, if the payments are ok, I'd rather have a mortgage than renting. At least with the mortgage you get some tax benefit, and your payment is reducing your loan balance (slowly) rather than peeing the cash down a toilet for years.
unfortunately where I live, 120k might buy you a studio at the very most, and even that is doubtful. And yes, that's even with the economic crisis and all. If you go leasehold, then maybe a 1 br condo. You'd have to work many many years with a middle class wage to afford a small house in cash. And even then, there's no guarentee that price inflation will outpace your rate of savings. If I moved to a region of the country hit hard by the crisis, then 120k is very doable for a decent house. If I moved to a very rural area, then 120k is doable for a nice house on a plot of land.
And potential employers do check credit when working in certain fields. Since my area is finance/acct heavy, I was screened as part of my background check. |
Edited by - buyingsilvers on 05/25/2009 10:31:36 |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
3788 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 12:44:55
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Ok, let me qualify my statement. In many areas of the country most people will never be able to save enough to buy a home. Certianly here where a basic condo starts at $250,000 no one is going to save fast enough to catch the market while also paying rent.
If you rent, you have a mortgage to support anyway - the Landlord's mortgage. |
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 13:01:09
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| 150k home, at 4.75 w/30k down, is around 800 a month. Cheaper then most places to rent. |
Trolling is an art. |
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sunsetcliff
Penny Pincher Member
USA
101 Posts |
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WIZARD1
Penny Sorter Member
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 21:01:31
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| If you want to do it right start looking thru halves at 500.00 a bag or box you can even float your paycheck every other week to peek at a few.Some people do really well searching halves, I used to buy silver on ebay anywhere from 8 to 12 times face now I just sort about 1000.00 a week just this year so far I have saved about 17 rolls of 40% and 3 or 4 rolls 90%,just takes time and patience and sometimes a little luck.No matter what stay away from credit if at all possible its as bad as any drug and has ruined the lives of many people,good luck with your hoard and enjoy your youth |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2009 : 21:04:03
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| Don't try to beat the banksters at their own game. They, not you, make the rules. |
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All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 14:58:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
Don't try to beat the banksters at their own game. They, not you, make the rules.
Very wise advice, Ardent.
There are ways of combating their fradulent system honestly, like buying gold, bartering, local alternative currencies, making your own beer/wine/jerky/whatever, banking at a locally-owned credit union instead of Chase/BoA/Citi, etc. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 22:35:49
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yes, towards the original proposal... I've thought of such a scenario as well.... but it is wrong and it is just bad practice. Delaware said it best.
so.... not a unique idea, sadly gleaned from the government and many around us.... but we won't be dragged down to their level, it isn't a nice place. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 23:01:11
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quote:
Originally posted by redneck
quote:
Finally, like it or not good credit is critical to a successful life. Without good credit you will never buy a home (you'll never save enough to pay cash).
FALSE...
Credit when buying a home or anything else makes you a indentured slave to the money changers.
$120,000 home,30 yr. mortgage at 8% = $316,987 = 2.64 times the original amount.
Enough money can saved to buy small home.
One does not have to keep up with the Jones's and their Mc Mansion to be a happy home owner.
Live within your means and worry not.
>
+1 here Redneck. Something to keep in mind folks, real estate prices will drop a lot further in the next couple of years. Peter Schiff had an excellent article about a week ago comparing peak price levels to the 50 and 100 year trends in real estate pricing. Look for it at europac.net.
I put 33% down when I bought my home 17 years ago, but I've still been beaten like a dog by interest payments.
Oh, buyingsilvers. Please take a little time to research the benefits of mortgage interest tax deductions. You're not the one "benefitting". Check Dave Ramsey's site for a concise explanation of how that is a sham as well.
Knowing what I know now...... Aw, hell with it....hindsight is 20/20 they say...
¿Tiene gripe?
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"Who is Lord Monckton?"
Jack, 2009. |
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should i ruin my credit on Precious metals?
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