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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2009 : 02:19:18
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I was just talking with a guy I've known for several years, and just found out that we both frequent a local coin dealer on a regular basis to buy silver. He said that in the course of talking with the dealer recently, the dealer said that he's expecting that a law or other binding regulation will be in place in the near future that will require PM sellers to fill out paperwork when they sell--they'd be able to buy it, but if they want to sell it, they'll have to create a paper trail. Other than outright wealth confiscation, which to me seems like political suicide, I can't see how something like this would ever happen, although weirder things have happened. Have any of you heard of anything like this on the horizon? Or is this guy just a more paranoid nutjob than most people?
EDIT: I almost forgot, he said this was going to be the case with bullion, but not with coins. But again, I'm not seeing the logic. Anyone have a clue?
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Edited by - Nickelless on 05/20/2009 02:46:46 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2009 : 08:09:05
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It wouldn't surprise me if our government  wants to know who's buying and taking possession of PMs. Of course, they could say, "We want to catch the terrorists, who are using PMs to buy weapons", or "We want to catch people avoiding taxes, by using PMs as barter". A number of reasons could be fabricated. I think those who are in possession of PMs are an independent threat and are viewed as disloyal  to the financial establishment. |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 08:41:52
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| Patriot act anti-money laundering regs already do some of this. first, if you pay with cash, you are subject to reporting. this really only affects people spending a few grand or more in greenbacks, not by check. the dealer sends in a report on you and you never know about it. second, the regs define bullion as any coin, even numismatic, that gets at least half its value from the bullion content. take for example $20 St. Gaudens gold. You would basically need it to be slabbed in MS-63 condition for it not to be considered bullion. i think the primary govt interest here is to limit tax avoidance, not confiscation. so what they will probably do is 1099 you. |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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dmccarty
New Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 09:13:44
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Hi Nickelless!
Sorry it has been so long since I have posted.. as many of you know, the past 6 months have been absolutely crazy for many PM dealers - APMEX being one of them.
To address your concerns on this thread. I talked with a number of people here at APMEX about your post. We have not heard of anything like this on a national level... if it were out there, the ICTA would be all over it, and likely fighting it like mad.
Here is my personal opinion - FWIW. The conversation you are referring to probably happened.
The coin dealer may have been talking about a local or even state law, as the states generally are more likely to regulate these sales than the federal gov't. State and local laws have a very wide variance, so this is most likely the scenario. States or municipalities would be interested in the taxation of these sales - a way to generate additional revenue. In this case, the local dealer would be very concerned about this event and likely to be talking about it.
Another possibility is simply political opinion. With any new President and/or Congressional control change, the ousted party (including constituents) generally embarks on a FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) Campaign... Both parties and constituents actively engage in FUDs, so it really does not matter what party is where, they happen all the time, and they make the truth very difficult to ascertain.
He could be simply trying to use some fear tactics to create some business for himself, too. This isn't unheard of, in fact it is a regular tactic in most industries. It is hard to say what motivated the conversation.
Quite a few people in the PM world are pretty paranoid and concerned about shadow gov'ts, gov't controls, confiscation, etc. They resist any effort on controls, etc - and they are well within their rights to have those opinions. Other members of our community are not concerned at all, choosing to live life and do what they enjoy.
Country is right too, there are almost infinite "reasons" that could be fabricated - all of which are reasonable, make sense, are logical and many of which have happened before in history. So being aware of these events and scenarios is prudent too.
So, again IMHO, I think most of these rumors are just rumors, though the true source or logic behind them is often unclear. Again, we have not heard of anything like this on a national level to be concerned about.
Thanks for letting me voice my opinion & insight on this Nickelless.
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Dave McCarty
http://www.APMEX.com |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 09:36:53
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| Dan - don't be coy. aren't you guys required to file suspicious activity reports with the feds on your customers paying by wire (cash) in excess of certain amounts? |
Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X
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n/a
deleted
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2009 : 04:54:38
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| I think in the UK there is already a law that requires Bullion Dealers to take a copy of the purchasers identification (passport or drivers licence) when buying or selling Gold Bullion in excess of £5,000. (I may be wrong on the amount). I don't think they are requried to do anything with the information other than have it available if the HMRC wish to inspect it. It wouldn't suprise me if the US government brought in a similar law. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Coming paperwork requirements to sell PM?
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