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deleted
59 Posts |
 Posted - 04/08/2007 : 07:42:57
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It ends April 14, right? Any word on whether it will be extended?
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One of the chief attractions of the life of the wilderness is its rugged and stalwart democracy;
there every man stands for what he actually is, and can show himself to be.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 10:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wes
It ends April 14, right? Any word on whether it will be extended?
Hadn't thought about that. Maybe I can rush a couple tons over to my metals dealer for export to China before they fix it.. just in time to pay taxes.
"Preserving coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M48/14USCA:US1Cu639700:US5Ni2400:CA5Ni46 |
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479 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2007 : 10:42:20
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Here is the exact wording of the summary directly from the mint's own pdf file at usmint.gov
(BILLING CODE: 4810-02-P) DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY Monetary Offices 31 CFR Part 82 Prohibition on the Exportation, Melting, or Treatment of 5-Cent and One-Cent Coins __________________________________________________ AGENCY: United States Mint, Treasury. ACTION: Interim rule with request for comments. SUMMARY: To protect the coinage of the United States, this interim rule prohibits the exportation, melting, and treatment of 5-cent and one-cent coins. This interim rule is issued pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), which authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to prohibit or limit the exportation, melting, or treatment of United States coins when the Secretary decides the prohibition or limitation is necessary to protect the coinage of the United States. This interim rule is effective until April 14, 2007. The public is invited to comment until January 14, 2007. Thereafter, but prior to April 14, 2007, the Department of the Treasury will reevaluate the need for the rule in light of the public comments, and other relevant factors. Upon consideration of the public comments and other relevant factors, the Department of the Treasury may issue a final rule extending or modifying the provisions of this interim rule, or may allow the interim rule to expire without extension. DATES: Effective Date: This interim rule is effective December 15, 2006.
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28 times 13 = 364
We cannot divide the 365.25 days of a year into eqwal parts.
We never have and never will.
We cannot even divide the 365 whole days or integer days into eqwal parts.
But we could have a year that is 364 days long.
I propose that we use a calendar made up of 13 months of 28 days each.
Then every five years we have a five day long party or holiday
that would serve the function that leap days now serve every four years. |
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Ridewithme38
Penny Sorter Member
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 00:05:52
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Nice does that mean in a week i can take my collection of copper coins to my local refinery and have them melted down? Or to the local scrap metal guy and sell them to him for the value of copper?
Now i wish i was sorting faster!
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RUNNING TOTAL: APROXIMATELY..
4687 Copper
127 wheat
43 canadian
1 Guatemala coin?(1979)and a 250gram .999 pure copper bar(Jetco USA) |
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17 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 10:34:37
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Does have ballpark figures on what scrap dealers pay for scrap copper?
It has to be significantly under 'wall street' value since they need profits too. I'm guessing maybe $2.80-$3.00 a pound? Maybe less? |
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 11:27:14
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I had the hardest enough time getting ANY recylcler/scrap metal place to buy my pennies before the ban. At least 6 months before the ban I tried some experiments with my local scrappers. I was able to sell over 100 lbs. of copper cents at I think it was over $2.70/lb. for a minimum of 50 lbs at a time. I sold 50 lbs. to one place and 65 lbs or so to another. I received about $2.60 at the 1st, and $2.70 at the second. I cant remember exactly but I think copper was over $3.50 at that time. Finding anyone to buy was very hard. EVERYONE I called flat out said that it was totally illegal and before I could argue it wasn't they had already hung up on me. I called probably 30 places all over Missouri and probably 50 places nationwide. The two places that I found were within 40 miles from my house.
I also sold 30 lbs of Ni nickels to a local smelter for $9.00/lb. when Ni was at $14.00/lb. This place was a higher-end metal recycler only dealing in tons and I told them I had two tons of pure Ni; so they allowed me to meet with them ( I didnt tell them what form the Ni was in at first),(I also didnt have two tons I just knew they wouldnt talk to me unless it was a high dollar sale). When I met with them face to face they laughed at me and about threw me out of the building. Now these were Canadian not US so they were hard to convince the people at first about Ni content so I had to give about 100 nickels to them for free at first and allow them to 'test' them and waited about a month. Then I received a call from them and they said they would be interested in buying two tons or all I had. I told them they shouldnt of waited and that I had sold both tons. The person that called me said that he regretted not acting sooner. I told him I still had about 50 lbs left if he wanted them he could have them for $10.00 a lb. He agreed. When I got to the place I realized I didnt bring all of my 50 lbs., I only brought 30 lbs. so I received even less money. The gentlemen in a suit and tie told me he thought this whole thing was illegal and that he was only interested in the beginning for a numismatic purpose, since he collected coins. He said he has no intentions of ever melting. I told him it was perfectly legal for Americans to melt Canadian coins in America, even though I really have no idea. I also told him about our coins being meltable and told him that was legal too & we started talking about metal compostion of coins and he was very interested, but I could tell he had no idea at about coins & was definitely not a collector. He thought we stopped using silver in coins in the 1930's, DUH. At the point I realized it was time to go, so I collected cash in the amount of $266.00 and got outta dodge.
I would have to say it is going to be awhile before scrappers will be buying coins, but I am positive that the market will develop.
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies
Buy Less. Work Less. Live More.
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 11:44:35
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| Thanks that had alot of great information in it. Stories like that make me want to set up my own mini smelting/refining operation. That way when it does become legal again to melt coinage, I can convert the base metal in my coinage into the form that will yield me the most return and into a form that won't cause people to freak:) |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 11:53:46
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I was working a deal with the metals scrapper we deal with at work for 2 tons of copper pennies right before the ban. He was going to buy it as #2 copper at $2.70 per pound, but he wanted me to prove to him that it was legal to melt or export the pennies.
That is how I originally found this board.. when I was doing all my Google searches trying to find out the legality of melting.
I could see that it was legal at the time but it was hard to find an official government say so on it. Some of the older laws were not scanned into pdf so I couldn't print them out.
Finally, when the melting ban went into effect my scrap dealer came by the office and said "Yep, you were right all along, but it is definately illegal now.. too bad we didn't get things done faster."
"Preserving coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M48/14USCA:US1Cu639700:US5Ni2400:CA5Ni46 |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 13:52:55
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HoardCopper, you should totally call him up on the 14th and say "yo, we've got a day to do this before the new restrictions come into effect."
Also, this passage warms the roosterles of my hoarding heart:
"I also sold 30 lbs of Ni nickels to a local smelter for $9.00/lb. when Ni was at $14.00/lb. This place was a higher-end metal recycler only dealing in tons and I told them I had two tons of pure Ni; so they allowed me to meet with them ( I didnt tell them what form the Ni was in at first),(I also didnt have two tons I just knew they wouldnt talk to me unless it was a high dollar sale). When I met with them face to face they laughed at me and about threw me out of the building. Now these were Canadian not US so they were hard to convince the people at first about Ni content so I had to give about 100 nickels to them for free at first and allow them to 'test' them and waited about a month. Then I received a call from them and they said they would be interested in buying two tons or all I had. I told them they shouldnt of waited and that I had sold both tons. The person that called me said that he regretted not acting sooner. I told him I still had about 50 lbs left if he wanted them he could have them for $10.00 a lb. He agreed. "
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"A nickel's nothing to scoff at."
C. Montgomery Burns
HoardCode0.1: M28/5CAON:CA5Ni35000:CA1Cu1200:CA100Ag345:
CA10Ag250:CA50Ag100:CA25Ag30:CA500Ag48:US100Ag20:CA1000Ag16
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n/a
deleted
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 01:18:36
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Great info Frugi. I don't see how it could be illegal to melt Canadian coins in the US (or US coins in Canada, for that matter). I may have to start asking local scrappers about these nickels. Is it illegal to melt (Canadian) coins in Canada? What about transporting large quantities out of the country? What are typical sort percentages?
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One of the chief attractions of the life of the wilderness is its rugged and stalwart democracy;
there every man stands for what he actually is, and can show himself to be.
-- Theodore Roosevelt |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2007 : 02:26:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Canadian_Nickle
HoardCopper, you should totally call him up on the 14th and say "yo, we've got a day to do this before the new restrictions come into effect."
I really enjoyed reading Frugi's story too. The difference is.. I really do have the 2 tons of material.. and I have an existing business relationship with this particular metals dealer. I interpret the mint's thing to mean.. we will take comments until April 14th and then do whatever the hell we wanted to do in the first place. I do not see the end of the comment period as a lifting of the ban. I know I can't convince my metals dealer of it unless I can give him a government source that says it is OK. Also, logistically.. even if there was a 1 day window of opportunity I could not physically move all those pennies in my little Camry. When we were negotiating the deal before I was going to deliver it 4 or 5 hundred pounds at a time over a period of several days.
"Preserving coinage.. 2 tons at a time"
HoardCode0.1:M48/14USCA:US1Cu639700:US5Ni2400:CA5Ni46 |
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deleted
59 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 00:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
Here is the exact wording of the summary directly from the mint's own pdf file at usmint.gov
Where can I find this entire docomeent? I can't seem to find it on usmint.gov.
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One of the chief attractions of the life of the wilderness is its rugged and stalwart democracy;
there every man stands for what he actually is, and can show himself to be.
-- Theodore Roosevelt |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
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59 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 07:49:14
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Cool, thanks. The link from the us mint wasn't working properly.
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One of the chief attractions of the life of the wilderness is its rugged and stalwart democracy;
there every man stands for what he actually is, and can show himself to be.
-- Theodore Roosevelt |
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Melt ban expiration
Forum Locked
