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RyanAKL
Penny Pincher Member
USA
224 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2009 : 21:46:52
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does anyone here have a safe and easy way to clean silver coins? i heard that a ammonia bath or viniger works is this true?
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 21:50:23
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Don't clean 'em....
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:00:54
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Acids, will remove metal, and will make the surface look dull.
I will use acetone on grimy "non numis" coins, maybe a little soap and water.
Numis coins, never ever, ever, did I say EVER?
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:17:15
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yeah, what these guys just said... keep them in their circulated state.
But if you absolutely MUST clean, then use a solution of very hot water and lots of baking soda. Gently wipe the silver while it is immersed, then drop in some aluminum and this will take off the patine / toning. This is an old trick to clean silverware, so it should work on coins, too. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:19:15
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| If this is a numismatic coin DONT CLEAN it!!!! |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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RyanAKL
Penny Pincher Member
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:27:25
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well i found this so im going to give it a try on a war nickel and see what happens:
SILVER
Now we get to the real business. Silver surfaces are chemically responsive, and can develop salt and oxide layers of various colors, depths, and degrees of adherence. All of these can be removed. Some are more difficult than others, and with some you'll wish you hadn't. But by and large, most silver coins will clean nicely, and often the appearance of a coin can be improved considerably without leaving any definite evidence that something has been done.
I've cleaned a lot of silver coins. The vast majority had favorable results. I've done this for so long that I've developed a general routine I follow for silver. Here's a list of my personal dos and don'ts:
1. For dirt and minor toning (brown is oxide, gray and black is sulfide) I carefully place the coins in a jar of straight household ammonia and leave them there for 15 minutes to 3 days or so. The dirt and most of the toning come off. The solution always takes on a blue color after a while, sooner with base coins, later with purer alloys. The blue is copper in solution, but I have never, over 20 years of doing this, created pitting, not even under 20x magnification.
What you get at the end of this treatment is a dirt free coin, lighter in color than it used to be. If there were any deep tone spots they will still be present. Silver coins will pick up black marks from contact with steel staples, such as are used to close 2x2 cardboard/mylar sandwich-type holders. Ammonia won't touch them. Green crust on old coins will eventually come off, you just need to be patient. However, under the green you will often find a red copper oxide adhesion, which is difficult. Best result on red crust comes from alternate immersions in ammonia and vinegar or lemon
juice (works just as well as hydrochloric or sulfuric acids). Patience is required, and occasionally one might consider a little physical help with a sharp tool, if one trusts one's hand. One can eventually get it all off with no marks.
One occasionally finds coins from Central Asia and other places with what I call "purple yuck," and more refined people call "horn silver." The coins have patches of dark encrustation that obscure the designs. Yuck is a sulfur salt of some kind, but it is acidic, and under the crust the coin's surface has been lost to corrosion. Ammonia won't touch yuck. Neither will vinegar or lemon juice. A long soak in battery acid will take it off, but then you'll have a pitted area. Whatever you do, your coin will be worth less than when you started.
2. After the ammonia bath comes the vinegar or lemon juice bath. (Wash coins in soapy water between baths.) Why acid? The deeper sulfate layers will respond to acid where they won't to ammonia, I suppose because they're denser? At any rate it's true. Some people don't do the ammonia, start right with the acid. The problem I see with acid is that its action is a little more vigorous, and if your spots or toning are too deep you will start to visibly erode the surface. Large areas of deep toning will strip to an off-color matte gray, spots will turn into pits. You need to know when to stop. That takes experience, which comes from ruining coins. So get some cheap coins to practice on. This kind of problem hardly ever arises with ammonia.
3. Both ammonia and weak acid will leave a circulated coin with a nice, mildly tony, completely natural looking "old silver" appearance. High grade coins will have their luster. Some deeper toning will remain in the recesses, and the overall result will usually be salubrious. One can go further and
strip the surface completely. This is done by things like Jeweluster, Tarnex, etc., all of which are basically the same thing: versions of thiosulfate and various secret ingredients. These will take away all of the toning and leave a bright coin. The thiosulfate compounds give excellent results with high
grade coins, but deeply toned coins are subject to the overkill mentioned above, and these chemicals will ruin your coin in minutes versus hours for weak acid. Still, I use Tarnex frequently to brighten up tired proofs. Thiosulfates have limits too. They often won't work on staple marks, or the heat sealing defects on some Franklin Mint proofs of the 70s and 80s. They have no effect on crusts of any kind.
To repeat my progression: ammonia, vinegar, Tarnex. When all done wash in soap and water. Handle by edges, carefully dry, place in inert package. I think that's enough for silver.
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:36:47
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| Those processes may not leave "marks" on the coins, but at the very minimal it will give the coin and artifical look |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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RyanAKL
Penny Pincher Member
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:37:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
yeah, what these guys just said... keep them in their circulated state.
But if you absolutely MUST clean, then use a solution of very hot water and lots of baking soda. Gently wipe the silver while it is immersed, then drop in some aluminum and this will take off the patine / toning. This is an old trick to clean silverware, so it should work on coins, too.
This procedure to clean silver at home lends itself to the removal of tarnish from flatware or holloware. In an aluminum pot or a pot lined with aluminum foil, mix a dilute solution of equal parts of baking soda, salt, and liquid soap. A quarter cup of each to a gallon of water would be a typical mixture. Set the sterling into the pot, bring the mix to a boil and allow to stand for a few minutes. Oxides are transferred to the aluminum. |
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Silver Surfer
Penny Pincher Member
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 22:41:50
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Years ago I cleaned some silver coins and I regret it now. I will never do it again.
MH mentioned a method for cleaning silverware using aluminum. The following demonstration is pretty neat...
You must be logged in to see this link. |
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 23:13:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
I read somewhere that boiling silver coins in just plain water will give them a rainbow tone. I haven't tried it.
Sticking them in an oven will do the same thing. Putting gold coins in the oven also gives them a nice tone. This was an old trick back in the early 1900's
Normally any fake toneing is easily noticeable tho... |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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kieblera5
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 23:42:10
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| I heard that pan-frying in oil will give the same effect. |
Democracy is being allowed to vote for the candidate you dislike least.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you mercilessly with experience.
Caller number seven gets the Peace Prize!
Get coding tips, tricks, and more at: http://codingmonday.blogspot.com |
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 00:05:46
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| If you're going to try the methods you found, why on a silver war nickel? That's only 35% silver, with some magnesium and copper mixed in I believe. I would personally not do that unless you know that the substances you plan to use will not mix adversely with the magnesium. |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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n/a
deleted
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 00:16:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kieblera5
I heard that pan-frying in oil will give the same effect.
 I put mine on the Foreman grill. All the bad stuff goes in the little grease pan. 
I tried the aluminum foil, baking soda thing. It worked okay on some American Eagles someone gave to the kids a few years ago. They had handled the bullion for a couple of days before their mommy put it away. It did not take off all the bad stuff. I think the chemical reaction gives up pretty quick unless you make a large batch. I used a 9x13 pan lined with foil. |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 06:45:56
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Never clean coins! Sell them if you're not happy.
Fake toning? I'd actually give that a try on a few AUs if i knew what I was doing. |
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Jefferson
Penny Pincher Member
165 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 13:59:26
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| For war nickels, try rubbing a paste of baking soda and water into the coin with your fingers. Wash, rinse, and repeat until satisfied. This will lighten it up, and/or remove the purple toning given to them by the baking soda & aluminum foil method. Just don't do this to a coin that's in good condition/worth anything over melt. |
"Specie is the most perfect medium because it will preserve its own level; because, having intrinsic and universal value, it can never die in our hands, and it is the surest resource of reliance in time of war." -Thomas Jefferson
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CoinHunter53562
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1805 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 14:34:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jefferson
For war nickels, try rubbing a paste of baking soda and water into the coin with your fingers. Wash, rinse, and repeat until satisfied. This will lighten it up, and/or remove the purple toning given to them by the baking soda & aluminum foil method. Just don't do this to a coin that's in good condition/worth anything over melt.
Wont this scratch up the surface? I cant believe anyone is advocating the cleaning of coins. If the coin is already kind of beat up and worn, then what would you stand to gain by cleaning it? |
My hobby: collecting real money 1 copper cent or nickel at a time.
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Jefferson
Penny Pincher Member
165 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 14:54:49
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| Yes it'll scratch it, I guess. Do this only if you want to see a war nickel with tarnish removed. I would never do this to a nickel that isn't horribly worn. |
"Specie is the most perfect medium because it will preserve its own level; because, having intrinsic and universal value, it can never die in our hands, and it is the surest resource of reliance in time of war." -Thomas Jefferson
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sunsetcliff
Penny Pincher Member
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 18:33:34
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| baking soda. and to save on that- beforehand- dirt. as in garden. this is ok for 90% and 40%. and yes- it gets dirty. |
It is great to be here ~ !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silverme/ |
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RyanAKL
Penny Pincher Member
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 18:47:20
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| I tryed the ammonia and lemon bath, i would have to say it works pretty good. after the ammonia bath rinse with soap and warm water then do the lemon bath and let soak for awhile. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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RyanAKL
Penny Pincher Member
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 20:30:29
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| The only reason i want to clean some of my silver coins is because they have that thick black layer of crap on them, you can hardly even read the date on some of them. but after i cleaned them they look beautiful. My qeustion is, why wouldnt you want to clean them? |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 20:38:03
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quote:
Originally posted by RyanAKL
The only reason i want to clean some of my silver coins is because they have that thick black layer of crap on them, you can hardly even read the date on some of them. but after i cleaned them they look beautiful. My qeustion is, why wouldnt you want to clean them?
Well if you bothered to read any of the replies to your questions you would already know why not..... but ill answer you again
Because if the coin is worth more than just its metal content than it loses that extra value because it cleaned instead of being original |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
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RyanAKL
Penny Pincher Member
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 21:38:48
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| how does it lose value if it is cleaned? when it was minted it was clean. Im not trying to start a debate im just wondering. |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 21:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by RyanAKL
how does it lose value if it is cleaned? when it was minted it was clean. Im not trying to start a debate im just wondering.
When the mint makes a coin its comes out in original condition. After a coin is handled many times it starts to wear time and sometimes gets junk on it. If you use a polish or a cleaner to get the junk off and make the coin shiny again. By using whatever substance to clean the coin you are taking off oils and everything that were original in the coins. Therefore altering the coin and no longer making it in original condtion.
This is perfect fine to do with "scrap" coins like common date coins, but for key coins this complety ruins the value!
For instance an original 1916 D Mercury dime in Au-50 condition its worth around $8,700. However if you take that same coin and use certain chemicals to clean it, to make it look shinyier or look like MS+ condtion, than that $8700 turns into $4,300 or less because its now a cleaned coin |
Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
Edited by - highroller4321 on 04/12/2009 21:51:17 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Topic |
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how to clean silver?
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