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n/a
deleted
146 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2007 : 16:59:47
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Hey again,
I was wondering why people still invest in gold. Apparently, people invest in gold very much given the price.
Gold has little industrial uses, there is no gold standard anymore, and gold will probably never be used as money again, since most people don't have it.
Silver and base metals in their purest form are probably better in crisis situations and as money, since they have industrial uses and can easily be sold to (or traded with) the proper parties for melting purposes. Plus, they're affordable by most people.
Is gold just an investment for suckers? I think that the gold price will drop dramatically once everyone realizes this. What do you think?
P.S. I officially stopped with the "Nickel Newsletters." I find FS nickels all the time and save them, but I have not found a pre-1962 in ages. Besides, it's annoying and a waste of time.
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"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens." -John Maynard Keynes
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2007 : 18:24:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Old_Nickel
Hey again,
I was wondering why people still invest in gold. Apparently, people invest in gold very much given the price.
Gold has little industrial uses, there is no gold standard anymore, and gold will probably never be used as money again, since most people don't have it.
Silver and base metals in their purest form are probably better in crisis situations and as money, since they have industrial uses and can easily be sold to (or traded with) the proper parties for melting purposes. Plus, they're affordable by most people.
Is gold just an investment for suckers? I think that the gold price will drop dramatically once everyone realizes this. What do you think?
P.S. I officially stopped with the "Nickel Newsletters." I find FS nickels all the time and save them, but I have not found a pre-1962 in ages. Besides, it's annoying and a waste of time.
--
"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens." -John Maynard Keynes
Old Nickel, you are a brave soul to question the value of gold in a forum such as this. On most hard money sites that would be considered heresy.
Short answer is that many people consider gold to be real money still. It has only been recently in our history that gold has not been tied to our money supply in some way. Many feel that the experiment with gold-less money in the U.S. is not working.
Having said that, I'm not as big on gold as an investment as a lot of other commodities. Mostly for the reasons that you stated above. I too don't think that we will see a gold standard again. At least not in the same way America was on it before. I can see money becoming tied to commodities in the future. In some ways it already is. When base metal prices fall the Canadian dollar usually falls too. A country could go on the silver, copper, nickel or even oil standard. Such commodities could be held in reserve and their money could be backed by such reserves. Who wouldn't rather hold a money backed by, let's say, copper instead of just the issuing goverment's IOU? Yes, gold could still be used too, but I can't see it being the only currency reserve for every country in this modern world.
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For good times to come or bad times to come, now is the time to save your copper or nickel coins. |
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 18:47:30
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My opinion, for what it is worth-
And I do thank you Old Nickel for asking the questions, it makes me stop and think and try to come up with the answers, no ill or mean feelings toward you in any way.
Gold has long been viewed as the standard of wealth for thousands of years. The lure of gold has driven men to cross deserts and frozen wastes, steamy jungles and mine deep into the earth where few mines would have gone.
The mines in South Africa are the deepest on earth, yet, the gold ore is poor quality and requires long and expensive processing to extract the gold from the rock.
Yet through all of these hardsips, gold is sought for all over the world.
Why is gold so desired? While its industrial usage is limited, the near indestructability of gold gave it the appearance of immortality to the ancients. Gold has been used to worship and honor deities of old.
Gold's industrial use is not recognized by many, but it is there.
Where is gold in our electronics? Better yet, where would our electronics be, or how effective would they be without gold?
The contacts of a telephone cord, the plug that goes into the wall or into the phone itself are gold plated.
At one time one ounce of gold could be found in personal computers from the 1980's (I don't know the ratio of today, but gold plated contacts and such will still be found in computers of today, especially the CPU and its contacts to the computer.)
Break open an old dead cell phone, inside you will see the gold plating under where the buttons make contact with the circut board. Gold plated contacts for television connectors and computer cables are considered among the best in electrical connections.
Gold film, used to block heat, is used on glass in high rises and on the space shuttle.
Beyond all this, ignoring the industrial, electrical and everyday use of gold, the human connection is the strongest.
Yes, there are better metals to use industrial wise,
and perhaps better to use trade wise, but consider this:
If you decide to travel to some foreign country with nothing more than the clothes on your back and four or five pounds of gold, you will find yourself able to trade that gold for
food
lodgings
medical treatment
and transportation
the best of all of the above the foreign lands have to offer,
and there will be willing traders of the local currency for said gold. No other metal has so powerful a hold on men's minds.
Again, thank you Old Nickel for asking about this, it is good to get the brain up and running when needed.
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Edited by - pencilvanian on 04/04/2007 18:52:55 |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 19:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Frugi
Gold is undervalued as an industrial metal.
How can that be so? Like silver, gold's value or price includes both its industrial and monetary value. If its industrial value goes up its price will go up. If its monetary or 'safe haven' value goes up its price will go up also.
Gold is much more of a monetary metal and silver is much more of an industrial metal IMO. How can one know how much of either metals total value is industrial or monetary?
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For good times to come or bad times to come, now is the time to save your copper or nickel coins. |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 02:41:56
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people love gold because it's booooootifull!
________________________
"A nickel's nothing to scoff at."
C. Montgomery Burns
HoardCode0.1: M28/5CAON:CA5Ni35000:CA1Cu1200:CA100Ag345:
CA10Ag250:CA50Ag100:CA25Ag30:CA500Ag48:US100Ag20:CA1000Ag16
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n/a
deleted
146 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 03:23:55
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AL: "Short answer is that many people consider gold to be real money still. It has only been recently in our history that gold has not been tied to our money supply in some way. Many feel that the experiment with gold-less money in the U.S. is not working."
Real money is only real money when people accept it. People currently prefer paper now, even with the legal tender status of American Eagles.
P: "Gold's industrial use is not recognized by many, but it is there.
Where is gold in our electronics? Better yet, where would our electronics be, or how effective would they be without gold?"
True, as a certified computer technician I know that the memory leads used to be made of gold (they are now tin). But don't you think it's overvalued, due to its little industrial uses as opposed to people being suckered in to thinking it provides safety during a crisis? I believe that silver and base metals are more useful during hyperinflation because, as I said, a company can melt them for their own use if needed.
P: "If you decide to travel to some foreign country with nothing more than the clothes on your back and four or five pounds of gold, you will find yourself able to trade that gold for food
lodgings medical treatment and transportation the best of all of the above the foreign lands have to offer, and there will be willing traders of the local currency for said gold. No other metal has so powerful a hold on men's minds."
True, but you're still going back to the local currency. Silver and base would be more useful, because more people would need it, depending on who you trade with. I just think gold is too expensive, that's all, because it gets all the hype as to safety and has little industrial uses.
I may be proven wrong, since everyone still may be suckered in at that point as well, still proving my point that money is what people accept as money.
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"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens." -John Maynard Keynes |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 08:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Old_Nickel
P.S. I officially stopped with the "Nickel Newsletters." I find FS nickels all the time and save them, but I have not found a pre-1962 in ages.
Heh... I've been finding about two pre-62s a month, right outta circulation.
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Penny Search Totals:
881 zincs (1982-2006) 77.1%
254 coppers (1959-1982) 22.2%
6 wheats (1940-1952)
1 dime (2004)
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 09:03:34
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In this most pleasant loving caring beautiful world that we live in today gold is valued ONLY for it's desire to please the eyes in jewelry & for industrial/electricity applications.
When SHTF. I mean when SRHTF. (When it really hits the fan and we have have no communications, food is scarce, no water supply, no working government, anarchy, civil unrest, rioting, daily power outages, no access to media, no access to You must be logged in to see this link. no grocery stores, no basic american necessities.) When this unfortunate time comes the TRUE value of gold will be realized. The true value will go up on all basic necessities like water, gasoline, food, guns, bullets, silver, toilet paper, coffee, cigarettes. If civil unrest becomes so unsafe to walk the streets and gasoline is so expensive to buy thins will be bad for everyone. You better be prepared.
Gold is undervalued today, right now.
My father always told me that when he was a child his father told him that a One ounce US gold Coin will always buy a GOOD suit. GOOD back then meant: the best money could buy. How much does a NICE suit cost today (ie. Armani, Gucci, etc.), not a Made in Thailand or China suit which sells at about $695.00, but a really nice suit? Hmm $3000.00 + tax. That sounds about right.
Just think... When sh!t stinks everywhere, and you can't take a bath bacause you have no running water, and your baths involve wading in the sewage filled river or drainage ditch everything becomes alot clearer and the need for true basic human necessities become very self-evident. You might be willing to trade 2 $50.00 gold pieces for a NICE warm coat. Valu is all relative to the supply & demand, you will quite possibly trade a $50.00 Gold Piece for a nice hand woven men suit of exceptional quality because it might be the only one you'll ever own.
I hope these days never come but who actually believes in world peace?
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies
Buy Less. Work Less. Live More.
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 18:56:50
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I agree that asking such a qwestion is important.
We get myopic tunnel vision within the confines of jargon talk and we forget about the "real world" out there.
So thanks for forcing us all to think.
I think Gold is special for several reasons.
Gold is BOTH yellow and Heavy.
It is hard to fake BOTH of these simultaneously.
Silver, Platinum, Pladium, etc. are easier to fake because they are All "white"
That is why IMO Gold is synonymous with money or tender.
So, I agree with Canadian Nickel, that part of the reason for its value is because it is beautiful.
I also agree with Frugi, that it has held its value through technological revolutions, wars, genocides, etc etc.
Also Penncilvanian points out that it is indeed truly international.
The Powers that be PTB or sometimes written as TPTB want us all to think that plastic is money and that there is no fall back position, no safety outside the system that they have created and continue to control.
Gold feels like freedom when I hold it in my hand.
I feel like I could "take the money and run" when I have a pound of gold in my hand.
I feel like I could escape somehow and run away from all this nonsense.
When I hold plastic, somewhere deep in the back of my brainstem, is a Feeling that someone somewhere could flip a tiny switch and my plastic would be just that, plastic.
That does not feel like freedom to me personally.
Of course you are entitled to your own opinion.
If my feelings were mine alone, it would Not be worth mentioning them,
but the fact that Many if not most people have Feelings about gold is worth mentioning.
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I think Norman Livergood's Essay, "Dollar Imperialism" is the best summary out there.
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Edited by - n/a on 04/05/2007 18:59:31 |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2007 : 10:56:58
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| Gold is no good for anything. I suggest you send all your gold to me so I can dispose of it properly. |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2007 : 16:00:17
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After reading over the topic again, I realized I overlooked one more thing in gold's favor, the mental tie that people have with gold.
The best way to describe this is what I call "The Birthday Gift Mentality"
Consider the average child on their birthday, what would make a good gift?
Clothes make a nice gift, clothes are useful, they fill an important need, and will last longer than some shiny toy. That having been said, How many children would choose clothes over a shiny new toy?
For grownups, slippers or cologne or perfume make a nice gift and will last loger than some shiny piece of jewelry. That having been said, would you prefer cologne over jewelry?
Somehow, someway, gold has slipped into the minds of men and women and is thought of as wealth and riches.
You can of course argue that other metals are more useful or more valuable, but whenever an idea is imbedded in a person's mind, it, much like a dandilion on the lawn, is not so easily removed.
I should have chosen "Cut-n-Paste" as a forum name, since that is what I do, mostly. |
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n/a
deleted
146 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 08:43:20
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See my new post in WTSHTF.
--
"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens." -John Maynard Keynes |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 14:00:35
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"When I hold plastic, somewhere deep in the back of my brainstem, is a Feeling that someone somewhere could flip a tiny switch and my plastic would be just that, plastic.
That does not feel like freedom to me personally.
Of course you are entitled to your own opinion."
You must not watch a lot of the TeeVee, because if you did, you would have been programmed by Credit Card Company ads to feel the freedom when you hold THE CARD.
Ah, the magic credit card. What a crock.
________________________
"A nickel's nothing to scoff at."
C. Montgomery Burns
HoardCode0.1: M28/5CAON:CA5Ni35000:CA1Cu1200:CA100Ag345:
CA10Ag250:CA50Ag100:CA25Ag30:CA500Ag48:US100Ag20:CA1000Ag16
How to read a HoardCode:
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2007 : 18:58:16
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After watching the charts at Kitco for a couple of years now, it occurs to me that buying is gradual and selling is sudden.
I have a hypothesis.
If we sart off with let's say the early post war era where most of the world's gold is concentrated in the hands of a few, most notably the FED, could the charts be explained by demand moving the price up gradually followed by the PTB (Powers That Be) selling in large chunks in order to push the price back down?
If the PTB want their fiat to be the only secure money, they would purposefully create insecurity in any competing form of money.
Sudden large sales by the PTB could create a psycology over time in which average people are wary of investing in gold and silver.
IF this is what is actually happening, THEN it represents the loss of concentration of gold.
Those who are buying (the masses) are accomeulating and those that are selling (the few) are NOT accomeulating, instead their portion is decreasing.
I am making assumptions here that may not be true, but if these assumptions are true, then the end result is less concentration of monetary metal in the hands of the few with the total basket of precious metals distributed more widely.
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28 times 13 = 364
We cannot divide the 365.25 days of a year into eqwal parts.
We never have and never will.
We cannot even divide the 365 whole days or integer days into eqwal parts.
But we could have a year that is 364 days long.
I propose that we use a calendar made up of 13 months of 28 days each.
Then every five years we have a five day long party or holiday
that would serve the function that leap days now serve every four years. |
Edited by - n/a on 04/09/2007 19:00:14 |
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Why do people still invest in gold?
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