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n/a
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479 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2007 : 11:49:31
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Poll Question:
When will a penny of some make up other than the current 97.5% zinc / 2.5% copper be issued by the US Mint?
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Edited by - n/a on 02/10/2007 11:50:11 |
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Ridewithme38
Penny Sorter Member
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 11:56:19
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I think there was some kind of agreement about changing the composition when they change the design(2009)...but i thought i heard they were going to bring the composition back to the way it was in 1909?
Long live the idiots at the Mint! |
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 12:07:18
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You must be logged in to see this link.
Wikipedia says that US pennies from 1864 to 1942 were made of "Bronze".
That is not specific.
Bronze can mean many different percentages.
Ridewithme,
Please vote on the above so that your input is tabulated.
Also, do you know more about the percentage of the 1909 coin than I do?
Thank you for your input!!
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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n/a
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2 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 13:45:28
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Variety 1 - Bronze (1909 - 1942)
. . . weight 3.11 grams; composition .950 copper, .050 tin and zinc . . .
Variety 2 - Zinc-Coated Steel (1943)
. . . weight 2.70 grams; composition, steel coated with zinc . . .
Variety 1 (Bronze) Resumed (1944-1958)
. . . 1944-1946 -- Weight, 3.11 grams; composition .950 copper, .050 zinc . . . 1947-1958 -- Weight 3.11 grams; composition .950 copper, .050 tin and zinc . . .
Copper (1959 - 1982)
. . . 1959-1962 -- Weight 3.11 grams; composition .950 copper, .050 tin and zinc . . . 1962-1982 -- Weight 3.11 grams; composition .950 copper, .050 zinc. 1982 to date -- Weight 2.5 grams; composition copper-plated zinc (core .992 zinc, .008 copper, with a plating of pure copper; total content .975 zinc, .025 copper).
-- The Official Red Book - a Guide Book of United States Coins 2007 (R.S. Yeoman) |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 14:02:04
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It depends of course on the future price of zinc. As you know, zinc prices are currently down so a zinc cent's melt value is below 100% of its face value again. Unlike the nickel that is about 139%. Yes, minting costs are a factor too, but I suppose the zinc lobby would do everthing it can to prevent a change at this time. So I don't expect a change with the penny for a couple of years still.
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Burn paper dollars before you melt coins. |
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 14:56:28
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I agree that 97.5% of the decision should be made according to the price of zinc.
The price of copper will have a greater effect on the Nickel than on the Penny.
Let's look at the trend line (in blue) for this copper chart and compare it to the blue trend line on the zinc chart.
Suprise! It's the zinc trend that is rising steeply and the copper less steeply.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
Edited by - n/a on 02/10/2007 15:05:30 |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 21:38:33
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You have to be carefull with the terminology. Many dedicated Numismatist get irritated when people refer to the Cent as a Penny. As to when they will stop them, probably never. Just to many people use them. The government would have to have the approval of every company, local goverment in the country first. Ever note the amount of items listed as $1.99, $2.97, etc. Then there are local, state and sometime county taxes in the odd number percents. This again would have to be worked out so that EVERYTHING ends up at a cost of and even amount so that Cents (pennies) are not required. And so just who would pay for all the stores to retag every single item. Who would pay all manufacturers to redo all their prices so that they do not require a Cent? Now tell all local governments to change their tax structure so that too would not require a Cent.
Carl |
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Ridewithme38
Penny Sorter Member
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 21:52:08
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What i think is a good idea...which i think has been suggested here i'd quote by who if i remembered...What just drop the last decimal place of our money and get rid of the quarter nickel and penny all in one shot...everything would cost $23.9 like that
Long live the idiots at the Mint! |
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n/a
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479 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 19:33:06
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Just Carl
thanks for correcting me, I'll say "US Cent" where I used to say penny.
I don't mind trying to adhere to the right terminology.
My qwestion may have been ambiguous.
What I meant to ask is this,
If the US Cent is too expensive to produce out of 97.5% ZINC and 2.5% Copper, WHEN do you think that US Cents will be made out of some cheaper material, such as steel, aluminum, plastic (don't laugh, Plastics ain't what they used to be.) Carbon Fiber, Kevlar, etc.
I didn't really mean to ask the qwestion, "When do you think they will stop having a denomination of one US Cent?"
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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n/a
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15 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 12:18:50
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| I think 2009. They are planning something for the bicentennial of Lincoln's birth, anyway, so it would be a great time to unveil a new cent composition. I know you didn't ask, but I think it will be something coated with copper. I think one of the reasons the steel cent didn't go over well was because it was silver and not copper-colored. I think they will want to change the metal composition even if zinc prices never go higher than what they are today. The mint is in the business of making money, and current zinc prices affect their bottom line. |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 12:34:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Ridewithme38
I think there was some kind of agreement about changing the composition when they change the design(2009)...but i thought i heard they were going to bring the composition back to the way it was in 1909?
Long live the idiots at the Mint!
This is a misconception that I hear repeated on the Internet time and time again. Not all 2009 pennies will be bronze! The only bronze 2009 pennies will be a small production of them that the Mint will sell to collectors. The business strikes will still be the normal composition, whatever it may be by then. This is all spelled out clearly in the applicable Act of Congress.
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Penny Search Totals:
881 zincs (1982-2006) 77.1%
254 coppers (1959-1982) 22.2%
6 wheats (1940-1952) 0.5%
1 dime (2004)
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 12:55:53
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Cerulean:
Do you know where to find the exact wording of the applicable act of congress?
Could you post it here?
Thanks
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 16:06:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean
quote:
Originally posted by Ridewithme38
I think there was some kind of agreement about changing the composition when they change the design(2009)...but i thought i heard they were going to bring the composition back to the way it was in 1909?
Long live the idiots at the Mint!
This is a misconception that I hear repeated on the Internet time and time again. Not all 2009 pennies will be bronze! The only bronze 2009 pennies will be a small production of them that the Mint will sell to collectors. The business strikes will still be the normal composition, whatever it may be by then. This is all spelled out clearly in the applicable Act of Congress.
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Penny Search Totals:
881 zincs (1982-2006) 77.1%
254 coppers (1959-1982) 22.2%
6 wheats (1940-1952) 0.5%
1 dime (2004)
If they want to make a limited editon of bronze pennies they ought to place a special mint mark on them.
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Burn paper dollars before you melt coins. |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2007 : 22:32:02
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Speaking of "bronze"...
From a metallurgical standpoint, a copper-zinc alloy is a 'brass'... 'bronze' refers specifically to copper-tin alloys. BUT that entire precise system of nomenclature was thrown out long ago since people thought "brass" sounded cheap. Almost every current "bronze" token, coin, or medal is actually a brass. The most common metal for bronze tokens and coins is what a metallurgist would call "red brass". The high-brass or "tombac" alloy used for copper pennies is therefore no bronze at all... though for some reason almost all authorities and even the mint itself continues to use the erroneous nomenclature.
This is really a shame, because true bronzes are really very nice alloys for coins and are more difficult to work with because they ten to be harder to strike. So for instance... I actually DO make a series of coins from a true tin-bronze alloy, but I can't just say "bronze" anymore, because the meaning of the word has been diluted by repeated erroneous usage, and now I have to specify alloy percentages or use the term "bell bronze" or "tin bronze" to distinguish between that material and the much cheaper and more ordinary brasses.
I don't know if this erroneous use can ever be straightened out unless the large mints take the lead. |
Edited by - tmaring on 02/12/2007 22:37:17 |
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 08:17:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist
Cerulean:
Do you know where to find the exact wording of the applicable act of congress?
Could you post it here?
Thanks
The full text of the article can be found here: You must be logged in to see this link.
and the part specifically about the penny's metal content is here:
You must be logged in to see this link.
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Penny Search Totals:
881 zincs (1982-2006) 77.1%
254 coppers (1959-1982) 22.2%
6 wheats (1940-1952) 0.5%
1 dime (2004)
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 19:56:36
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I'm very impressed with the level of discourse here.
1. tmaring provides us with the truth about brass and bronze.
2. cerulean answers a specific qwestion with a concise answer.
This is a great place to learn from!
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Paul Craig Roberts urges people to
DUMP DOLLARS! |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 11:45:42
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Brass and Bronze are usually confused since many metallic items are close in compositions. Brass is normally a misture of Copper with about 30% Zinc and 1% Tin. Bronze is copper & Tin of numerous different proportions. Although Brass is usually as noted above, bronze is also made of mixtures of copper with Phosphorus, Manganese, aluminum and even Silicon. Brass is hardly ever called Bronze due to it's more stable combinations of metals, highly polishable finish, easilness of workability. Bronzes have been around for thousands of years and the mixtures of materials with Copper being so varied is what separates that from Brass.
Carl |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 13:40:45
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2009 is my guess. Early 2009, they will pass legislation to eliminate the cent after 2009.
It would allow the 100th aniversary of the Lincoln cent.
The administration leaving office would be considered responsible for the demise, not the newcomers. As if the newbies won't garner disrespect on their own.
COurse, this is IF hyperinflation doesn't come into play before then.
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Poll: When will the US Penny be replaced?
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