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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member
USA
124 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2007 : 01:49:56
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I am a newb, so please forgive this fundamental question... I know that some of you are keeping your pre-82 pennies for a rainy day. However, I get the feeling that some of you are converting them into paper money now.
Since melting the pre-82s is illegal, how are you turning your stash into something more liquid?
It sounds like some scrap dealers may be buying them? At what rate (e.g. #2 Cu?)? Since they can't melt them either, what are they doing with them? Hoarding?
Do coin collectors place any premium on pre-82's?
Just trying to figure out how to convert my copper into cash.
Thanks very much for the education.
MaDeuce
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 09:56:14
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Welcome to the forum MaDeuce:
Your qwestion is everybody's qwestion. None of us have a definitive answer.
My answer is to look back at what happened to the 90% silver pre 1965 dimes, qwarters, and half dollars.
One can get a quick history of these over the web or better still by walking into any coin shop in the USA.
First the coin was debased by the mint.
Second, Gresham's Law drove the good money out of circulation, ie. into hoarding.
Third, the govMint outlawed melting just as it began to happen in earnest.
Forth, people became resigned to using the debased replacement coins and stopped talking about it.
Fifth, once 99% of the good coins were out of circulation and the debased coins were completely accepted by the population,
the govMint lifted the ban on melting the old coins (perhaps in an attempt to keep them from coming back again like Napoleon Bonapart)
Sixth, after many were melted in the great melt of 1979, 1980, 1981. People stopped melting them.
Seventh, today what's left of them trade at 9.5 times face value (January 29, 2007) price fluxuates with the silver spot price.
Eighth??? anybody's guess right?
My guess is that they will eventually return to "Circulation" once the fiat component of the debsed coins looses another 99.9% of value.
In other words, when the US Dollar inflates by 1000% or more, the dimes at qwarters we use at face value will be melted for their copper content and the 90% silver coins will be used as money. This is only MY guess, and I must stress the word, EVENTUALLY from above.
90% Silver has not yet reached stage eight.
95% Copper pennies are just entering stage two, with a qwick jump to stage three making this analogy weak because of the rapidity with which the govMint acted this time in comparison to last time.
If you hoard copper pennies, you should do so for your children not for yourself. I don't see them becoming valuable qwickly.
I am more keen on Silver and especially Nickel. But Copper is a good long term hold and pre-1982 pennies are better than holding sheets or bars, or wire, other such form factors.
Please remember this is merely my opinion, nothing more.
Peace
.................................................
A billiard ball dropped from 1,362 feet (height of the South Tower) in a
vacuum would require 9.22 seconds to hit the ground. How then did the
towers collapse in 10 seconds and 11.4 seconds, and why has not one
member of the mainstream media insisted on honest answers from the
government in this regard?
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy
so monstrous [that] he cannot believe it exists."
- J. Edgar Hoover |
Edited by - n/a on 01/30/2007 10:05:29 |
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2007 : 17:36:13
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Ryedale,
Thanks. That's very interesting. So he's getting $3.19/lb. He's also a repeat seller:
You must be logged in to see this link.
In total he's sold two bags of 5,000 and one of 2,500.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out on EBay.
I've talked to a number of coin dealers that are into bulk silver. So far, they've had no interest in bulk copper; they are only willing to pay face value.
There has to be a better answer, so I'll keep looking. I'll pass on whatever I find.
Warm Regards,
MaDeuce |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 20:39:46
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Athiest:
"...the dimes at qwarters we use at face value will be melted for their copper content and the 90% silver coins will be used as money."
I'd think the copper and nickel coins would circulate, along side the silver... After you melt a quarter, who is going to trust an anonymous blob of metal? You can pretty much assume a low denomination coin is what it is purported to be. Look up the metal value and price your barters accordingly.
I can't see accomeulating any circulating coins higher than the 1 and 5 cent coins. Gonna be a long time before the piddly amount of metal in a dime or quarter will be over face value (barring hyperinflation, of course).
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Edited by - beercritic on 02/04/2007 20:41:23 |
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just carl
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 17:00:09
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I suggest you look up coin shows and where you live. If there are any, go to one and you'll see where all the pre 82 Cents are going. If you want to see why, check out coppercoins.com web site. Some of those are worth in the thousands and if people keep melting them down for pennies, the ones left will be worth even more.
Carl |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 21:00:04
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Yes BeerCritic I agree.
The 1s and 5s (pennies and nickels) are over 100% at coinflation.com. The dimes and qwarters are indeed FAR behind.
The point I was making is this,
"Would they upset the status quo often?"
I submit that they are Very Intelligent men. I submit that they have some sense for how often it makes sense to retool their industry from the psychological perspective. I venture to guess that they are privy to the results of focus group studies and historical information that informs them as to how often you can change the coins without making people qwestion the fiat value in the coin.
Perhaps they are willing to rebase or debase the 1s and 5s today and then turn right around and rebase / debase the 10s and 25s a year or two later.
Perhaps they are afraid to do so.
Perhaps they know that doing so more than once a decade or so introduces Fear Uncertainy and Doubt into the "Good Faith and Credit" that lays the golden eggs.
So what I am saying is,
Perhaps they can look at the base metals price and stock availability charts and see that rebasing / debasing the 1s and 5s will only buy them LESS than the hypothetical decade of memory loss I allude to above.
Anyway BeerCritic, I appreciate the debate.
I appreciate your call for clarity.
And,
I'd really like to know,
What is your favorite mass produced beer?
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"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2007 : 22:01:36
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Atheist,
What CAN they do? Rebase the penny, or remove it from circulation? Removing it telegraphs a defaulting currency. Rebase the penny & cease making nickels, buys them SOME time and keeps them from operating at a loss.
I'm guessing plastic, steel or aluminum coins to replace dimes and higher. SOON. Meanwhile folks should covert their FRNs to copper and nickel, cause when paper collapses, a few coppers will still be worth SOMETHING.
Favorite (as in not too obscure?) beer? Hmmm... That's like me asking you which deities you believe least in... :)
I'm really, really fond of hoppy North American Pale Ales. The hoppier the better... Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, toward the lower end of the spectrum, Arrogant Bastard toward the middle, and Three Floud's Dreadnaught IPA toward the top of the spectrum. For Hoppy American Pale Ales, that is. I've got dozens of favorite hoppy ales...
I did help define the Pale Ale, IPA and Imperial IPA style guidelines, for use in beer judging competitions. Did I mention I like hops?
I likw of most of the British Milds and Bitters, the Belgian Trappist and Abby beers. Not too keen on the German Lagers, but adore their wheat beers. Enjoy sweet stouts & dislike dry ones (Guinness (Ack!))
Anyway, I do have a couple hundred other favorite beers, depending on the situation. Always order a Vienna style lager with Mexican food, for example... Stay away from beers that look like really upset me to the point of seeing yellow (cause any beer will look like really upset me to the point of seeing yellow soon enough anyway).
Specific beer questions? I'll do my best to answer. |
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2007 : 22:08:54
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way off topic here but, beer critic what is your opinion of Leinenkugels beers from Chippewa Falls, WI.; I have been rather fond of it lately, and was curious on your thoughts. I have mainly been trying the Sunset Wheat.
Maybe some day beer bottle caps might circulate as a alternate to copper/zinc cents.
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies
Buy Less. Work Less. Live More.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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beercritic
Penny Pincher Member
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 08:22:11
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Hmmm... Copper Cap Currency. And if the police catch you with your bottle capper, you can say, "It's a copper cap capper, copper." Ouch. Sorry.
_________
Lennies beers aren't too bad. They are a regional beer, so I'm pulling up old memories of them. Certainly way better than Bud Miller Coors and what was it you were drinking a while back? Corona? IMO, good 'training wheel' beers to acclimate away from Megabrews, toward Microbrews.
I'm guessing the Sunset Wheat is an American Style Wheat. I'm pretty sure they make a traditional Hefeweitzen. See if you like that. It should have some banana esters on the nose and a slight clove like component in the taste. Should you like that, start looking for a real German Hefeweitzen. Oh, hefeweitzens should be cloudy. Very cloudy. They're supposed to be. That's the yeast in suspension, and where the banana and clove stuff comes from.
I think Lennies also makes a Red Ale. It'd be a bit more assertive than their American wheat. More flavor but still not too aggressive for someone just getting away from MacroBrews.
Since you can get Lennies, also look for a brand called "Summit" from St Paul. I tried a few of theirs at the airport there, and found them somewhat better than Lennies. More of what makes good beer good, anyway.
Moderators: I'm goint to start a beer thread in 'The Dumping Grounds' and siphon such discussions toward that direction. |
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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 21:20:37
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As I sit here in the courtyard of a friend's home one the edge of the French Quarter, I am catching up on this site while enjoying one of my favorites -- Abita Amber Ale. An opinion on these, BeerCritic?
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 21:35:11
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Madeuce,
please see the beer critic thread under gneral discussion.
..................................................................................................
"Financially, the US economy has degenerated into a sort of cargo cult, where people feel that they can continue to attract recycled petrodollars by dancing around piles of internet servers with their cell phones and their laptops."
-Dmitry Orlov |
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where are the pre-82's going?
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