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terminal99
Penny Sorter Member
53 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2008 : 09:33:00
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If one was to risk melt down some copper pennies, what would the value of the finished product be compared to what a scrap yard would pay? Pennies before 1982 are not totally pure copper. Is there any way to find out, in a short period of time, the purity content of a bar of copper?
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Saul Mine
Penny Collector Member
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 14:13:44
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In another thread somebody mentioned $2.40/lb for #2 copper, whatever that is. That would be $2.40 for $1.47 FV. That's almost as good as selling them on Ebay. Ebay and Paypal charge fees, and it costs for fuel to melt things, so I guess it's about even. Copper forms oxides and bubbles when you melt it so you can't cast it into any presentable object like an ingot or something.
I don't know much about assaying copper except that electrolysis is the most accurate method. That means a plating bath. You can't measure weight and density like you do with silver and gold because of the bubbles.
BTW, I hope everybody knows you can use google to get densities and properties and anything that has a unique answer. Type in "density of copper g/cc" and see what you get. Try "diameter of the sun miles". It will do calculator functions too. |
A penny sorted is a penny earned!
Please use tinyurl.com to post links. Long links make posts hard to read. |
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terminal99
Penny Sorter Member
53 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 14:21:27
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| What would the difference be between #1 and #2 copper? |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 14:25:57
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Of course you know it is currently illegal for you to melt your pennies, right? Usually there is supposed to be a reward relevant to risk. Why would you want to risk going to prison? Why would you melt copper pennies when you already have a government issued round of known weight and fineness? Prior to the melt ban I was discussing a deal for 2 tons with the local metals dealer we deal with. Pennies would be considered #2 copper. So if you wanted to calculate what the scrap rate wouldb just call your local yard and get the price per pound for #2 copper. Obviously, the value of the metal would be higher than what a scrap yard would pay.. they need to make a profit too. I think back when I was negotiating the deal the figure was $2.70 per pound, but my company already has a commercial relationship with them so I would get a higher price than the street rate.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 14:27:47
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| #1 copper is much purer than #2 and brings a better price. Copper pennies will always be #2 copper. It would cost you way too much to refine it down to make it a higher grade. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 14:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by terminal99
What would the difference be between #1 and #2 copper?
It is not worth reading this article, but it has a good definition of No. 1 and No. 2 copper.
You must be logged in to see this link.
"No. 1 copper scrap is one of the scrap designations on which most members of the copper consuming and producing industries can agree. It is comprised of at least 99 percent copper. No. 2 copper scrap is considered by most industrial consumers/producers to be scrap with 94-98 percent copper content. However, some in the scrap consuming industry view No. 2 copper scrap as any scrap not classified as No. 1 copper scrap. Sequential definitions beyond No. 2 scrap indicate material with ever-decreasing percentages of copper and increasing percentages of other metals, such as lead, tin, and zinc."
Scrap yards can have a dozen different classification and prices for copper scrap.... Besides No. 1 versus No.2 they can tack on cleanliness, solder or not, insulation or no, wire diameter, etc to make all kinds of categories.
It is good see (legal or no) that at least one scrap place considers pennies as No. 2 copper instead of trying to put them in with brass or some other lesser category. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 17:30:39
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| Do you think Canadian Copper Pennies would ever grade higher than #2.....they are 98% Cu, 1.75% Sn, 0.25%Zn.....or similar to that ....some of the older pennies are less Sn and more Zn. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 21:00:04
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| I don't think Canadian Copper pennies would grade higher than #2. Pre melt ban I was discussing this with our metals dealer and they classed Canadian coppers as #2 also. It has to be 99% or better to qualify as #1 copper. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 07:22:08
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quote:
Originally posted by c140cessna
Do you think Canadian Copper Pennies would ever grade higher than #2.....they are 98% Cu, 1.75% Sn, 0.25%Zn.....or similar to that ....some of the older pennies are less Sn and more Zn.
Maybe you could throw in a few zincers to bring that high range 98% #2 copper back into the low range of around 94%. |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2008 : 00:23:24
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| lol good thinking horg |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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Flbandit
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
851 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2008 : 10:22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
quote:
Originally posted by c140cessna
Do you think Canadian Copper Pennies would ever grade higher than #2.....they are 98% Cu, 1.75% Sn, 0.25%Zn.....or similar to that ....some of the older pennies are less Sn and more Zn.
Maybe you could throw in a few zincers to bring that high range 98% #2 copper back into the low range of around 94%.
LOL, we can cut our coppers! That's one way to increase yields! |
Are you throwing that out? |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2008 : 13:08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
quote:
Originally posted by terminal99
What would the difference be between #1 and #2 copper?
It is not worth reading this article, but it has a good definition of No. 1 and No. 2 copper.
You must be logged in to see this link.
"No. 1 copper scrap is one of the scrap designations on which most members of the copper consuming and producing industries can agree. It is comprised of at least 99 percent copper. No. 2 copper scrap is considered by most industrial consumers/producers to be scrap with 94-98 percent copper content. However, some in the scrap consuming industry view No. 2 copper scrap as any scrap not classified as No. 1 copper scrap. Sequential definitions beyond No. 2 scrap indicate material with ever-decreasing percentages of copper and increasing percentages of other metals, such as lead, tin, and zinc."
Scrap yards can have a dozen different classification and prices for copper scrap.... Besides No. 1 versus No.2 they can tack on cleanliness, solder or not, insulation or no, wire diameter, etc to make all kinds of categories.
It is good see (legal or no) that at least one scrap place considers pennies as No. 2 copper instead of trying to put them in with brass or some other lesser category.
That sounds about right.
The scrap yards around me classifies No. 1 as clean with no green corrosion, dirt or solder. It can be darkened or have a very, very light patina or tarnish. Copper pipes and stripped romex wiring is No. 1.
No. 2 has corrosion, heavy dirt, solder still on the ends of copper pipes, if they suspect the item might not be pure copper (usually when dealing with castings), etc...
They also have a classification called "bright copper". That definition is above No. 1. Depending on what day you ask them what is and isn't "bright" you get a different answer...
Near as I can tell it is for scraps coming straight from a machine shop or a stamping shop who got the material straight from the mill. It is usually in specially designated clean containers and gets stored inside.
Pennies are definitely No. 2 at best.
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Saul Mine
Penny Collector Member
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2008 : 16:55:38
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HCBTT nailed it: a penny has a known purity. Any other form is just junk metal.
And don't sweat the ban. It keeps copper off the market, forcing prices higher. When it's time to sell, they will lift the ban. |
A penny sorted is a penny earned!
Please use tinyurl.com to post links. Long links make posts hard to read. |
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Melt Value
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