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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:00:41
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Got to thinking, how do you get rich? By sitting on a potential profit margin for 2,3,5 or more years? NO, you get rich by TURNING PRODUCT! Over and Over and Over again.
Has anyone checked on the metal composition of copper products coming into this country from China?.... Would it surpise anyone if it happened to be 95/5 Cu/Zn? Maybe not now, but in the next couple months, as the industrial sorting seems to have begun in late '07 or early '08.
If the mint was contracting the sorting, it would be in the news. NOTHING our government WANTS to keep secret is ever kept secret. (And why would they care to keep it secret?).
With container ships leaving this country headed back to China EMPTY, the cost of shipping would be cheap. They actually use rock as ballast to keep the ships stable, which is then dumped when the ships near harbor in China.
Thoughts?
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"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:02:56
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Far more thought than I would have put into it, but is it unreasonable? ONly problem is that the Melt ban is also an EXPORT BAN. SO they couldn't legally do this.
Did you get the idea anywhere? |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:04:12
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| When has legally stopped the greedy? |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:08:05
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Wolf,
There was an article at Kitco about China's copper consumption being up something like 13% last year. Apparently they are a net importer of copper. |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:14:13
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I need to update my hoardcode and include it in my by-line. I'm within striking distance of you on Cu cents Wolf('s dad).  |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:22:32
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Delawhere... truly it could be done criminally, but I doubt it could be done on a regular large scale...I think it would be discovered...I think the Mint/Fed REALLY doesn't want it to happen.
Yes, China imports copper, that is not illegal, just about importing US pennies that have a 'ban' on them.
ANd CHina imports a lot of scrap and unrefined mineral deposit. They 'produce' 'x' amount of silver and gold a year, but much of it comes from concentrate... I guess it is cost effective if their environmental standards are low enough to shave cost/expense.
Anyway, it's possible... but kinda doubt it.
Also, would the alloy stay the same through the refining process? or do the two metals get 'seperated'? |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:29:53
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Thought about the smelting effect on composition, must admit, I don't know. I would guess that it would lower the zinc content, as zinc is more reactive.
As far as getting them out of the country, do you think they really inspect exports as closely as they inspect imports, (which is barely at all?)
All you'd need to do is fill a bin 90% with copper cents, and top it off with steel, aluminum, whatever. Get through a visual inspection at customs, and off you go to profitsville. (I'm not against profit, just cheating). |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 21:32:43
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| I am NOT advocating exporting copper cents, merely speculating on what may be going on. |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 22:06:41
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Jack,
You can turn a profit by just selling the coins here in the US.You can get around $.02 each for them on ebay.If you don't like Ebay, myself and a few other one here I think are willing to pay .015,which is still 50% profit.
Say copper is $4 a pound. .02 each is $3 a pound(150x$.02) and you don't have any risk,lies, pirate ships,etc. They wouldn't pay full amount either as they have the costs on their end as well. |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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MormonMetal
Penny Pincher Member
USA
150 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 00:56:08
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| Going forward, China will be a huge factor in many things. Due to their population, they don't do anything in a small fashion. Whenever they begin to use up resources, they do it by leaps and bounds. I feel as though once the melt ban is lifted there will be HUGE amounts of our pennies, both copper along with zinc, showing up at the docks of Chinese smelters. They could also be a large market for our nickels. With large enough scale I believe refining the copper/nickel would be very cost effective. We are living in very interesting times right now. With China coming to the modern age all commodities will go up in price value, including base metals, but also precious metals, oil based products, even tobacco. There was a special on the History Channel about tobacco, and I said that 1 out of 3 adult Chinese smoke. It may be time to invest in some tobacco companies. Everyone should keep their ears open to news on China, because what China wants China gets one way or another. |
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cyberdan
Penny Collector Member
USA
289 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 10:20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MormonMetal
There was a special on the History Channel about tobacco, and I said that 1 out of 3 adult Chinese smoke.
I find that hard to believe. They must be counting in women as well. I am sure the percentage is MUCH higher amoung men.
I have been to Japan many times and more than half the men smoke everywhere. China is very backwards over most of the country. I would think in the rural areas more than 90% males smoked. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 11:14:48
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As I understand it, it is not illegal to export such coinage to other central banks. Loophole?
But I don't think sorted copper pennies are going to China........yet. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 21:38:33
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| I don't believe the export ban applies to coin collectors. |
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Know Common Cents
Penny Pincher Member
195 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 22:12:09
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| Have there been any true incidents of the Cu melting ban being enforced by any governmental agency? I've done a couple of basic internet searches on that and can get more than enough info on the ban itself, but never any news of violators. Imagine if the Feds would prosecute for these infractions and send the offenders to the slammer. Cell mate to convicted melter: "So, what are you in for?" Convicted melter to cell mate: "Melting copper pennies." Imagine the possibilities. I think that the media would disembowel the Feds for doing something like this. Never know, though. |
Here in Wisconsin, we have some of the highest property and gasoline taxes in the US. We're squeezed so much, I have to make my daughter wear penny boxes for shoes. At least she has an endless supply. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 09:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Know Common Cents
Have there been any true incidents of the Cu melting ban being enforced by any governmental agency? I've done a couple of basic internet searches on that and can get more than enough info on the ban itself, but never any news of violators. Imagine if the Feds would prosecute for these infractions and send the offenders to the slammer. Cell mate to convicted melter: "So, what are you in for?" Convicted melter to cell mate: "Melting copper pennies." Imagine the possibilities. I think that the media would disembowel the Feds for doing something like this. Never know, though.
I don't know of any. But IMO if or when they snag one they will have a field day in court and the media go along with it. The judge would throw the book at them to set an example. You don't make money off of the U.S. goverment unless you 'know the right people and play by their rules'. Federal prisons are full of them.
I'm sure there are some who are melting them as you read this. I can't see a scrap yard/refinery that deales in hot copper passing by the opportunity to double their money right now with Cu pennies. But I'm willing to bet it's not Brinks that is involved in such an operation. They would have too much to loose. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 17:31:11
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In order to pay proper respect to the melt ban, I hereby ask if anyone has ever considered writing a fictional story of a copper smuggler who ships his copper cents TO Mexico to
either-
A. Sell to scrap delaers who don't know or care about the Yankee melt man
B. Sell to China.
Making up a fictional story about smuggling copper cents to sell to smelters violates no law and the Feds would have a tought ime trying to abolish fictional stories.
Who knows? Maybe a tale of a cooper bandit might catch the public's imagination leading the public to question the usefulness or sanity of the melt ban.
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 17:41:19
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Pencilvanian,
Thanks for reminding me. What was I thinking, I could get myself, if not all of us in deep doodoo with the Fed thought police. What if my theoretical scenario, posted in the Internet, got flagged by one of the 20 acres of supercomputers underground in Langley VA?
Oh, wait. Nothing to fear. I used the words "China" and "Secret" in the same post, so I'm certain that the post cleared any filters they may have.
BLC |
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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If I were an "Industrial sorter"...
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