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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 11:47:52
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Found another dud in the stack last night. I think it was from the same batch as the other 3. It only had 2 coppers in it. The good news is they were dated 1919 and 1925-S.
Hoarding Location: Northern California |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 11:49:40
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| Now it seems they are toying with us! |
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Think positive. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 04:25:41
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Now they aren't even toying with us anymore. Picked up 8 boxes today from the bank I suspected gave me 4 duds last week. They are getting better at cleaning out the copper.
All 8 boxes were duds.. only found 3 coppers in all 8 boxes, and all of those were in box 7.
I will see about swapping some of the dud boxes for more boxes tomorrow at a different branch of the same bank to see if all the copper has been sucked out of this bank's penny supply. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2008 : 14:45:34
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| My dud bank did better this week. Only 2 out 6 boxes were duds. 1 box was average and the other 3 were nice and beefy. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 15:27:14
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I'm trying to get a handle on this so please bear with me...........Are you finding duds in non-special order boxes? In other words, if you do a drive buy are you getting better results? If Brinks is sorting then they just might be sending their zinc rejects to high volume penny buying banks on purpose just to discourage our mass sorting and hoarding.
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Think positive. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 19:10:46
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| And is there a pattern among the few coppers you do find? Are they all a certain year? Are they all bent? Corroded? |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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TXTim
Penny Hoarding Member
629 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 19:40:38
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Good news, Bad news.
Bad news first-
Got my first Brinks dud box here in Houston yesterday.
Good news is that it had one copper: 1897 IH in good condition! |
Beer is my currency. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 19:54:50
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| Now that's strange. It's almost like someone is putting in a gem or two just to say hello. |
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Think positive. |
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TXTim
Penny Hoarding Member
629 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 20:11:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
Now that's strange. It's almost like someone is putting in a gem or two just to say hello.
I think it kind of confirms our suspicions. A CRH'r wouldn't have missed it (the IH). This and all the older date wheats I see here in previous posts were probably in the zinc reject bin and got wrapped. My Ryedale culls it as zinc with a copper disc. |
Beer is my currency. |
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aloneibreak
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
672 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 20:14:27
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i think there are WAY more hoarders out there than any of us realize. this forum only has slightly over 500 members and less than 300 of them have even posted and far fewer post with any regularity.
just a few days ago one of my co workers was telling me about how he heard that pennies are worth more than face value and maybe he would start saving all his. word is getting out thats for sure.
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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 20:32:08
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| There are more people out the sorting. I've encountered at least 2 different people in my credit union now. Hadn't gotten a bad roll of CRW coins in 3 years. I now know at least 2 people that are ddepositing reject zincs there. I have their names and have talked to one of them and steered him away from depositing in my credit union to one of Horgad's. |
Edited by - Tourney64 on 02/23/2008 20:32:39 |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 20:32:31
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quote:
Originally posted by aloneibreak
i think there are WAY more hoarders out there than any of us realize. this forum only has slightly over 500 members and less than 300 of them have even posted and far fewer post with any regularity.
just a few days ago one of my co workers was telling me about how he heard that pennies are worth more than face value and maybe he would start saving all his. word is getting out thats for sure.
I agree. I was in a new coin shop in Erie PA and they were buying silver hand over fist but the big talk was about copper pennies! Still, I don't know how many are really sorting and hoarding. I'm not even sorting yet myself. I'm just buying/weighing the boxes and hoarding them. So I'm not returning any zincers to the banks. I can't see many people sorting huge amounts without a Ryedale or a similar machine. Unless Ryedale is selling a huge amounts of machines I don't think the small sorters (less than 12 boxes a week) are making a big dent into the U.S. copper penny suppply. But a corporation such as Brinks could.
Another thing is that if it were people like us that are causing the duds, how could our zincers end back up together in sealed Brinks boxes with an Indian head or two? |
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Think positive. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 20:45:12
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| If Brinks or the Mint is sorting and pulling copper cents out of circulation then we can expect to see our supply lines getting tighter all the time. If Brinks is returning copper pennies to the Mint they will never see the light of day again. Off to the smelter they will go sooner or later. That means that the copper pennies we hold are going to be worth more as copper pennies than as their melt value alone. Unlike 90% silver coins, I expect big corporations or the goverment will not be holding on to the copper in the form of coinage for long. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 21:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
Now that's strange. It's almost like someone is putting in a gem or two just to say hello.
Not like that at all.
As discussed here among Ryedale users, the old bronze content pennies get kicked out when compared to a late copper sample and get added to the zinc pile. It's the one downfall of the technology. Human eyes are needed for pennies before the 1940's. I've undoubtedly let a few slip out before changing my sort technique to scan through the zinc pile.
Our little Ryedales operate with the same physics as whatever bigger faster machines are being used.
I REALLY want to get the word from someone on the inside to find out what's happening. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
Edited by - El Dee on 02/24/2008 00:16:53 |
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TXTim
Penny Hoarding Member
629 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 22:36:50
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I was curious about this thread and didn't think it could ever happen to me.
A random 100% zinc box in a town as big as Houston (even though there must be lots of hoarders here), can't be a fluke. Combine that with the huge number of pennies circulating here. I'd bet that the odds would almost be as bad or good as getting a 100% copper box.
I a now a believer that Brinks or other contractor has to be sorting out copper.
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Beer is my currency. |
Edited by - TXTim on 02/23/2008 22:43:25 |
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TXTim
Penny Hoarding Member
629 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 22:42:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
If Brinks or the Mint is sorting and pulling copper cents out of circulation then we can expect to see our supply lines getting tighter all the time. If Brinks is returning copper pennies to the Mint they will never see the light of day again. Off to the smelter they will go sooner or later. That means that the copper pennies we hold are going to be worth more as copper pennies than as their melt value alone. Unlike 90% silver coins, I expect big corporations or the goverment will not be holding on to the copper in the form of coinage for long.
I agree that this could be a good thing and fewer copper pennies will lead to higher prices. |
Beer is my currency. |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 00:16:38
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| Wish I had some BU rolls, especially if they were ORiginal BU rolls of 60's pennies. You're right, if pennies start getting melted on a large scale then pennies could become rare. But keep in mind, BILLIONS were minted most years!! BILLIONS! And many people DID put back BU rolls... so circulated pennies may never be worth more than 1 or 2 cents above melt. But again, right, won't be held like silver coinage(which I'd still like to know if there are reports or facts as to 'junk' silver getting melted, especially in the last 10 years). |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 00:18:37
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| Ardent, I don't think they are doing anything intentional about sending to 'problem' banks, because my first pair of duds was from a place I had never bought pennies from...and none of the tellers gave any indication another 'hoarder' had been around.... it was... "Pennies, what do you want with so many pennies?" |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 08:16:36
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quote:
Originally posted by El Dee
quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
Now that's strange. It's almost like someone is putting in a gem or two just to say hello.
Not like that at all.
As discussed here among Ryedale users, the old bronze content pennies get kicked out when compared to a late copper sample and get added to the zinc pile. It's the one downfall of the technology. Human eyes are needed for pennies before the 1940's. I've undoubtedly let a few slip out before changing my sort technique to scan through the zinc pile.
Our little Ryedales operate with the same physics as whatever bigger faster machines are being used.
I REALLY want to get the word from someone on the inside to find out what's happening.
That makes sense and now that you said it I recall reading that here. If such a sorting operation is going on and I believe that it very well may be so, how are they able to keep it secret? Having said that I goolged Brinks and I couldn't find any information as to how they obtain, roll, and process their coinage. |
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All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 08:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Tourney64
..... I have their names and have talked to one of them and steered him away from depositing in my credit union to one of Horgad's.
That is damn funny....cruel....but funny... |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 08:54:00
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I would guess that there may be a large commercial hoarding activity going on and these guys could be keeping it hush-hush.
What if you were a multi-millionaire...like several hundred million....and you saw an opportunity to protect millions of your dollars while turning that into perhaps 5X - 10X your investment....it would be possibly easy to contract with Brinks or the like to access their coins for sorting...also, they do not have to have an immediate selling/smelting/exporting outlet...they could just be mega-hoarding ....esp if the "know" that in a few years the penny will be dead and they can cash in....what it they know the "dollar" will be dead...and they are hedging?
Big money is well connected and smart...that is how it got big to start with....
I'm getting my tons right now!
One another note - I have a bank that I dump at into their lobby machine....when it prints my reciept...it clearly states two types of pennies: "New" and "Old"...the total of the two are correct...in fact I tested it by putting in 100 coppers (I nearly cried....). That is strange that they would track the two....
Get 'em while they last....and quit mucking up the market by selling for just 1.5 - 2.0 cents each...get the bigger picture...and bigger profit! Hold now - sell later.... |
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TXTim
Penny Hoarding Member
629 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 09:26:42
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Cessna- what kind of machine is printing those receipts?
That is very telling.
Why would a sorter manufacturer bother? |
Beer is my currency. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 10:32:12
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quote:
One another note - I have a bank that I dump at into their lobby machine....when it prints my reciept...it clearly states two types of pennies: "New" and "Old"...the total of the two are correct...in fact I tested it by putting in 100 coppers (I nearly cried....). That is strange that they would track the two....
I've never seen one of those receipts in person, but on another forum someone posted a picture of one. It did indeed distinguish copper pennies from zinc pennies. This was over a year ago, too. This tells us that Ryedale's machine isn't the only machine sorting for copper, and that some banks either sort copper for themselves or (more likely) for the armored car companies. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:10:16
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Maybe MaDeuce is doing copper now.  It might not actually be Brinks that is doing it.. it could be that an industrial sorter has entered the game and has contracted with Brinks to provide a substantial amount of street coin for "cleaning" at whatever locations this company has sites set up. It could be that it is opening up new satelite offices in various cities each month.. look for a new shop opened near you in Houston. All of my dud boxes have been from one branch of Wells Fargo that is near where I work.. 50 miles from where I live.. so the duds seem to be region by region rather the entire penny supply so far. I have not received any duds from my banks near home and none in paper rolls yet. All have been in Brinks wrap, so whoever is doing it has an arrangement with Brinks. The technology is out there. I remember reading about someone getting a Coinstar or similar type receipt about a year ago that had the 2 types of pennies listed. De La Rue and Reis both make very good machines with this capability. Is there a way to check quarterly sales volume on these 2 companies or maybe imports through customs records on Reis machines? The few coppers we find in some of these dud boxes are consistant with the technology. To do that kind of volume you would have to be completely automated and the few Indians or old wheats would be acceptable loss rates as opposed to the cost of labor to get 100% extraction. Maybe someone that is in a region where the duds are starting to pop up can go to Brinks with a proposal to start up such an operation. You know Brinks is not going to give up any information, but maybe by what is discussed in the beginning stages of negotiation for such an arrangement you might be able to deduce if such an operation is already in place.
The reason why you would get both normal boxes and dud boxes from the same source bank is that the satelite operation is not processing 100% of Brinks' street coin supply in that area yet.. they are still ramping up. The solid dud boxes represent the cleaned material that they have reintroduced to the penny supply, while the regular boxes, whose percentages seem to have remained consistant with past percentages are the normal penny supply which has not been sent out for the "cleaning" process. I have gotten 12 out of 12 duds at the Pinole, CA Wells Fargo bank branch in the last few weeks.. so that local operation seems to be functioning pretty efficiently. Another interesting thing.. for about 4 weeks prior to the duds starting to appear this branch was not getting my weekly order of 8 boxes in.. I was lucky to talk them out of 1 or 2 boxes. They said it was because of an audit or something, but maybe it was in interruption in the supply flow because the diversion had just started taking place. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
Edited by - HoardCopperByTheTon on 02/24/2008 12:23:43 |
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mickeyman
Penny Pincher Member
Canada
243 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 18:25:04
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In Canada the Mint has been sorting out the old nickel and copper coins for at least a year. An announcement was made but without a lot of fanfare and was met with almost no interest from the general public, but I for one began to increase my efforts at that point. The first coins to go were quarters, and over the past year the percentage of .999 Ni quarters in general circulation dropped from >60% to about 15%. But it has held at that level for several months now. Dimes were untouched until about two months ago, when their percentages began to drop (still about 50% though). At first I thought that the older coins would become more valuable, but realistically, so many were in existence, and the economics of large scale sorting (especially for coins where the face value is still considerably higher than the metal value) probably mean that those remaining 15% of quarters in circulation will remain there. I don't know how many of these quarters are in existence, but 15% of that will still be a pretty big number. So I don't think there will be much of a numismatic hit for these coins, unless you have some in really good condition.
There still is no sign that they are after nickels--strange, as those seem to have the best economic payoff. Maybe there are lobbyists who are hoarders, and they have convinced the Mint to go after the lousy coins first. |
Not all who wander are lost. |
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Brinks is Sorting out the Copper
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