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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2008 : 22:46:40
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Something that's been nagging me for a while---why don't the Mint tubes for Silver American Eagles actually hold 20 Eagles?---the cap doesn't fit in all the way! Do the Gold American Eagle/Krugerrand tubes have the same problem?
I know that the Mint has struggled with the thickness of Silver Eagles, but this is ridiculous! I've never seen 20 eagles fit inside an Eagles Tube. Am I missing something?
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"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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n/a
deleted
192 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 23:07:35
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Made in America.
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The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John Maynard Keynes,
English economist (1883 - 1946)
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n/a
deleted
192 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 23:09:49
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The Japanese would be ashamed to shovel s--t like that out the door.
The Swiss woudn't consider it.
America is not only cabable of selling such junk, we are able to shovel it out the door for years and years and years without fixing the problem.
Ever got around to learning the metric system? |
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The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John Maynard Keynes,
English economist (1883 - 1946)
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Edited by - n/a on 01/30/2008 23:10:27 |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 01:01:44
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I guess what also troubles me is what this problem implies.....if the Mint can't be trusted to make tubes that hold their own product, can the product itself be trusted? In this case, I say yes, but nevertheless, they really dropped the ball on this one, and it makes me think twice. I'm still curious about the gold eagles tubes, as well.
Any more info on this subject would be appreciated. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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tmaring
Penny Collector Member
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 14:28:16
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As a coinmaker I have to respond to this one. Predicting the ultimate thickness of a stack of coins is outrageously difficult. The dynamics of metal flow to the rim of the coin (the part that touches in the stack) is ridiculously complex, and so the only solution is to make a few and measure them. The problem there is that there are variables from die to die (many different die sets are used in the production of a coin run. A die set typically lasts between 20,000 to 50,000 strikes.) An almost insignificantly minor variation in the rim groove may cause the rim of one coin to be thicker or thinner by a few thousandths of an inch... consequently a stack of 20 will vary by 20 times that variance. Twenty coins times two thousandths is forty thousandths... about 3/64 inch... easily enough to make a tube cap fit poorly. Die wear will cause variation in the flow of metal into the rim, even when the wear is not enough to cause the dies to be withdrawn from use. Finally... the tubes were probably created by a completely different group than the ones who made the coins. They probably got ahold of one of the earliest batches of coins to measure, and simply failed to realize the scale of variability that can occur.
If a strike is done with just a little more force than usual, the metal will push a little harder into the rim and sometimes form a miniscule bead or fin, which will make the coins stack a bit higher. This can happen for the first few coins on any run after the press has been idle for more than a few minutes, as oil seeps into the knuckles and increases their diameter by a few tenths of a thousandth until it gets squeezed out again under pressure.
The thing to remember is that with bullion coins (which is what we're talking about) the key metric is the weight (or mass) of the coin! Just like those cereal boxes that claim the box is filled by weight not volume, so too with bullion coins. After the fineness of the metal stock is assured, the mintmaster is primarily concerned with weight, second by diameter, third with surface detail, and probably fourth on the list is thickness.
So all I'm saying is give the poor sods a break here! If the coins are light... give-em hell! But a little rim variation is NOTHING! It just shows that there are actual humans at work here and not androids. |
Tom Maringer
Shire Post Mint
Springdale, Arkansas |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 15:55:39
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Thanks for you input, tmaring! I had no idea thickness was so difficult to get right. I assumed (and you know what they say about people who assume.  ) the Mint would be a "well-oiled machine" by now, but you're the one who makes coins, not I. And as you mentioned, it's bullion, not numismatics, so I don't really care too much about the minutiae of the coins---it's something that's been nagging me for a while. I'm glad your expertise could enlighten me on this matter. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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n/a
deleted
478 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 16:44:52
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| I used a sanding block to wear down the tube cap until it fit right. I've been wondering about this also. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 16:48:55
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quote:
I used a sanding block to wear down the tube cap until it fit right.
I like that idea. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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n/a
deleted
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 20:20:34
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| gold tubes dont hold all 10 coins either. the lid doesn't fit all the way on. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 01:06:39
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quote:
gold tubes dont hold all 10 coins either. the lid doesn't fit all the way on.
Are you talking about the old 10 coin Krugerrand tubes? |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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n/a
deleted
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 22:34:38
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| american eagles. you have to put a peece a tape over them. |
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 22:29:52
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| wow. a $10,000 dollar roll and the tube doesnt seal up nice and tight. Amazing. |
"99% of all lawyers give the rest of them a bad name" 
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2555 Posts |
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Silver American Eagle Tubes
Forum Locked
