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insurrection1517
Penny Collector Member
USA
262 Posts |
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Frugi
Administrator
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 19:23:26
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| not many wheats left in circulation. millions of each year were made. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 20:17:06
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| I'm trying to provide a home for a few of them. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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insurrection1517
Penny Collector Member
USA
262 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2008 : 20:34:09
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You must be logged in to see this link.
There were only a few years where just over a billion wheat pennies were produced, and we are still finding them.
As many as 12 billion copper Lincoln cents were produced per year from 1959 - 1981.
Adding in my head quickly, it looks like about 160 billion 1959-1981 lincoln copper cents were produced; compared to approx. 25 billion between 1909 and 1958. That is six times more coins in circulation, besides the fact that they are more recent. Is it possible to get them all, or even close? Will it take 100 + years? |
Check out my auctions on ebay!: http://shop.ebay.com/lutheranamerican/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=413556 - 3% cash back on everthing at Ebay - including coins, precious metals, etc. Much better than Ebates.
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 11:42:41
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Its hard to say how many pennies are out there for the following reasons-
1 People throw them away by accident or intentionally and end up in landfills
2 People lose them or intentionally drop them on the ground to get rid of such a small annoying coin (sheep are sheep and you rarely can change their minds or habits)
3 Some get taken to other countries in the pockets of tourists (US Tourists bring back foreign coins when they travel, foreign tourists probably do the same.)
4 Really damaged pennies get sent to the mint by banks (copper & zinc cents)
5 some get damaged (elongated, railroad tracks, melted down ban or no ban, etc.)
My rough estimate is 80% of all the copper cents minted are still in circulation, in coin jars, junk drawers, ash trays, etc. 80% sounds about right more or less.
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Edited by - pencilvanian on 01/20/2008 11:44:49 |
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insurrection1517
Penny Collector Member
USA
262 Posts |
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insurrection1517
Penny Collector Member
USA
262 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 13:42:32
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The other thing we need to consider is how plentiful copper is. Copper is available in endless forms - our homes are filled with it. This was not quite the case with silver.
And, other countries mint coins in copper. Like the Canadian Penny until 1996.
I guess, my fear is that the market for copper pennies which has developed at about 1.5 - 2 cents each will not last once people realize how much copper is out there, unless we see major price increases. |
Check out my auctions on ebay!: http://shop.ebay.com/lutheranamerican/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=413556 - 3% cash back on everthing at Ebay - including coins, precious metals, etc. Much better than Ebates.
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Ryedale
Administrator
USA
523 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2008 : 14:02:37
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Im sure you know of the sorter I sell, I'm not trying to be salesy, but heres a quick calculation I did one time, based on 300 sorted per minute.
If you had all the pennies in one spot that have been minted from 1959 to 2004 or so, ~270 billion coins.
It would be a pile 1000 feet by 1000 feet, by 10 feet tall, and it would take 1000 of my machines sorting 24/7 2.5 years of continuous running without stopping for anything, just to sort them once. Of course this is not possible, but gives an example of the scale of the number of pennies out there. This also excludes wheats, and for the most part, i think they are gone or about 1/2 percent of the "coppers".
So all this being said, I think it's going to be a long time before the coppers are going to be gone, and then we get to do it all over again with the zinc coins.
Good topic, Thanks for posting. Andy |
Ryedale
GET YOUR DRI-SLIDE FROM IRONBRAID
http://www.ironbraid.com/driside.html
Used with permission from Ironbraid.
Quote
"The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right place, but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the most tempting moment."
— Dorothy Neville-Rolfe |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 14:15:35
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All the pennies in circulation. About 20-30% are copper. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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insurrection1517
Penny Collector Member
USA
262 Posts |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 15:43:30
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I think there are 300B pennies....and about 33% are Copper...thus 100B Copper Pennies. I figue a Semi-Tractor/Trailer can haul 40,000 lbs (20 tons). The trailer is 53 feel long....add in the Tractor...call it 70 feet....I calculate it would take 250 miles of Semis nose to tail to haul the Copper pennies. 750 Miles for the Coppers + Zincs. That is a shload of pennies!
All that said....think of this....I'm probably one of the most active penny hoarders in the USA....I have 3 Ryedale machines. I've been treating this like a part-time job for nearly a year...and just crossed the 1 Million penny barrier. I can barely give 1 copper penny to every person in the city limits of Detroit....that puts things in perspective....then when you think that China has a population 1300X Detroit....you can see just how much copper the world needs.
Yes, there are a lot of pennies....but there are a lot of people:
Here is another calculation: 100B Copper Pennies x 3.1 grams / 454 g/lb / 300,000,000 Americans = 2.27 lbs of copper pennies per American = about $3.40 Face Value Copper Pennies per American....if you spread that over the world population of 6.5B....it's just 16 cents per person.....this will not even put a dent in what a developing world will need in terms of copper! |
Edited by - c140cessna on 01/20/2008 15:48:09 |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 21:53:08
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Modern population numbers are amazing. When I explained to someone that there weren't enough silver reserves on Earth to give every man, woman and child just one ounce, he was shocked.
I am short to mid-term bearish, yet long-term bullish on metals in general. Buy a little now, a lot soon, and sell later down the road. If the world switched back to a gold standard it would be amazing to see the price of just one ounce of gold! I dare say that many people on this board would be quite happy. |
Edited by - starwarsgeek171 on 01/20/2008 21:54:16 |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 08:15:39
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Insurrection,
I can't tell how serious you are. There has been an influx of trolls lately, but I will bite on your questions...
"Will they ever all be taken in? Is it possible?"
That is a moot question. The price of copper is the price of copper and so follows the worth of the copper penny. How many copper pennies remain in circulation does not lower their worth beyond that fixed amount. The odds of copper pennies ever becoming rare are slim to none and that is not the main reason why they are being hoarded.
"The other thing we need to consider is how plentiful copper is. Copper is available in endless forms - our homes are filled with it. This was not quite the case with silver."
The rarity of a metal in the ground only very indirectly matters in how much it is worth. On of the things that matters more (that is related to its rarity) is the extraction cost. Think of all the things that have to happen to get that copper out of the ground and refined and then ask yourself are these things going to cost more in the future or less? Heck the ocean is filled with gold so I guess that should be worthless too. 
Also you are seem to be picking dollars (a thing that is produced with the press of a magic button at practically no expense and that has no practical use...besides maybe burning it to gain a little heat) over something that is used everywhere and takes a significant amount of labor and resources to bring to market. That may work out OK for you short term, but long term I can guarantee you that the dollar will always lose...
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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member
174 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 19:14:48
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| I find it funny when people refer to the dollar as useless. Sure the paper dollar's value is intrinsically zero but I am curious: what did you use to buy groceries this week? If you paid in any form of American dollars, then I highly doubt you took your change home and tossed it in the fireplace... |
Pennies For Sale: http://tiny.cc/jorhynespennies |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 19:42:04
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| I paid in zinc pennies.. but I suppose that is still a form of the American dollar. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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n/a
deleted
192 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 21:34:20
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"I paid in zinc pennies"
Partially, I'm sure.
No grocery store will accept $100.00 in pennies.
I'm sorry to be so frank as to border on the confrontational, but I am very skeptical that you pay for even half of your groceries in pennies.
If you claim that they do, please back up your claim with the name address and telephone number of the store that you claim is accepting $100. in pennies when you buy groceries. |
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The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John Maynard Keynes,
English economist (1883 - 1946)
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aloneibreak
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 22:24:59
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quote:
Originally posted by me2
If you claim that they do, please back up your claim with the name address and telephone number of the store that you claim is accepting $100. in pennies when you buy groceries.
i dont believe anyone claimed a grocery store is accepting $100 in pennies. your weekly grocery bill may be $100 - maybe that is where you got your amount. |
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 02:53:50
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| I only spent $25 in pennies on groceries that day. But I accept the challenge. This week I will go buy groceries with 4 bricks of pennies. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 07:52:45
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quote:
Originally posted by jorhyne
I find it funny when people refer to the dollar as useless. Sure the paper dollar's value is intrinsically zero but I am curious: what did you use to buy groceries this week? If you paid in any form of American dollars, then I highly doubt you took your change home and tossed it in the fireplace...
Sorry let me rephrase that...what dollars are made out of is practically useless. This may seem like a moot point until you consider that the dollar has lost 96% of its value since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. Also, there are examples of currencies similar to ours that have gone to 0 and been used to literally feed a fireplace.
You must be logged in to see this link.
I wish that I could say that I find it funny when people stake their future to a fiat currency, but I don't see anything funny about it... |
Edited by - horgad on 01/23/2008 07:53:44 |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 09:21:36
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Hoard, when you buy your groceries, be sure to:
1) log the date of each penny given
2) have a TV news crew record the transaction
3) get a notarized affidavit from the president of the grocery chain
4) his home email address
Otherwise some folks won't believe you.
Even you might not believe you. |
Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 17:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by El Dee
Hoard, when you buy your groceries, be sure to:
1) log the date of each penny given
2) have a TV news crew record the transaction
3) get a notarized affidavit from the president of the grocery chain
4) his home email address
Otherwise some folks won't believe you.
Even you might not believe you.
Hehe....
Deal |
Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
 Posted - 01/23/2008 : 18:10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by El Dee
Hoard, when you buy your groceries, be sure to:
1) log the date of each penny given
2) have a TV news crew record the transaction
3) get a notarized affidavit from the president of the grocery chain
4) his home email address
Otherwise some folks won't believe you.
Even you might not believe you.
You are right.. no matter what, somebody is not going to believe you. These stories are just too good to be made up though. I only had 2 bricks of pennies with me when I left the house. I dropped one at the gas station and only had one left to buy groceries with. I figured it was a pretty good challenge to just drop one brick at each place. When I got home and realized I forgot the milk I grabbed some loose rolls to take to another store and buy a couple of gallons of milk. I like the idea of the challenge of spending 4 bricks though. If anybody can do it it is me. I just don't have that much room in the cupboards or frig.. they are fully stocked right now. There are only 2 of us so I don't usually have to spend a lot on groceries. Besides, I would rather spend my money on more pennies.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 18:20:32
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| It depends on the size of the grocery store of course, but if you handle it right such stores may welcome your pennies. I often meet my local (small) grocery store owner at the bank he is almost always picking up a box or two of pennies. If I provided them to him without his having to go pick them up I'm sure he would have no problem with it. After all, I'm spending money in his store. But that is not the same as going through check out and holding up a line of angry customers while a shocked cashier has to call the office to find out what she should do. Just think of yourself as being their pennies Brinks man. Always make sure that you don't short anyone with your boxes of course. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Are there too many pennies out there?
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