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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
 Posted - 08/16/2010 : 22:04:42
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After developing a relationship with my buyer, I have renegotiated rates and can now pass the savings on to my customers. If you're interested in using Market Harmony refining services, please click on the link in my signature or You must be logged in to see this link.
Thanks for all of your past patronage and support. Realcenters are great groups of folks and have been a big part in the development of my little company. 
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goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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totalcount
Penny Sorter Member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 08:12:26
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I notice on your price sheet that you don't have a price for 90% silver that isn't US coins.
I'm not sure I am reading your sheet right so can you verify these numbers?
1000 war nickels = 5,000 grams
1,750 grams silver 56.36 OZt $18.43/OZt = $1038.71
2,800 grams copper 6.17 lb $ 3.27/lb = $ 20.17
450 grams manganese 1 lb = $ 0.00
$0.04/gram recovered: 5000*.91 = 4550; 4,550*.04 = -$ 1.82
Assay Fee = -$ 25.00
Net: $1032.06
If not paid for copper then the $/gram recovered
5000*.35 = 1750g; 1750*0.04 = $0.70
so the total would be 1038.71 - $0.70 - $25.00 = $1013.01
It looks to me that if you can buy a large quantity of war nickels for less than $1.00 each you can turn a profit (keeping in mind shipping costs and refining losses, it would have to be a little under $1.00)
Since war nickels are excluded from the melt ban and on another thread someone mentioned a dealer selling a quantity of them at $0.75 each, there is some quick money to be made (roughly $250 per 1,000 nickels). |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 09:09:33
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Yes, there is a rate for 90% silver on the refining rate sheet. I'm not sure how you missed it. It is 85%
For clarity on your example:
1000 pcs X 5 grams = 5000 grams total weight
That will also roughly be the "processed weight" So, 5000 x .04 = $200
35% purity of 5000 = 1750 grams of silver
$18.50 silver spot, means $1040 total silver value
Payout is 80% x $1040 MINUS $200 processed weight fee and assay fee = $607.70
So, you have to pay less than .60 each to make a profit.
I really don't know how you misinterpreted the refining rates, but perhaps you can explain what went wrong. Perhaps it isn't clear enough. Fresh eyes always see things differently than eys that see the same thing day in and day out.
I've said this many times before, War nickels are a terrible investment if you are looking for silver. They are difficult to refine and not very liquid in the market. You can find much better deals and get much better refining rates for scrap sterling silver items. War nickels are the red-headed step child of silver investments. No offense intended towards war nickle investors, red heads, or step children. And, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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AGCoinHunter
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
685 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 09:30:25
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| I agree on the war nickels, MH. Why I only pay 5 cents for mine. |
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
-Thomas Jefferson
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand
________________________________________________
Lenin: Class-based International Socialism
Hitler: Race-based National Socialism
Obama: Class- and Race-based Post-National Socialism
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Kiwiman
Penny Pincher Member
225 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 10:35:50
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| So MH how much do you buy war nicks for? |
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totalcount
Penny Sorter Member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 11:41:36
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Thanks for going over this, it seemed too easy.
I made two mistakes in my math, and I think there are a couple of things that should be clarified:
Mistakes:
- Misplaced the decimal point by two places, a $198 mistake
- Totally forgot the .80, I saw it on your sheet, just forgot to put it in.
Clarifications:
- Your sheet says "Silver items > 90% purity" and Silver items < 90% purity", but there isn't a "Silver items = 90% purity" From your comment, I think it should be "Silver items >= 90% purity"
- Processed weight isn't defined anywhere, I took it to be the weight of the recovered metal after processing, but really it is the weight of the metal submitted for processing.
I also wasn't sure if there was a payout for the copper content, not a big deal for high silver content items, but in this example there is 6 lbs of it (of course, if an assay fee applied to it as well that would be more than the value of the copper)
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
Yes, there is a rate for 90% silver on the refining rate sheet. I'm not sure how you missed it. It is 85%
For clarity on your example:
1000 pcs X 5 grams = 5000 grams total weight
That will also roughly be the "processed weight" So, 5000 x .04 = $200
35% purity of 5000 = 1750 grams of silver
$18.50 silver spot, means $1040 total silver value
Payout is 80% x $1040 MINUS $200 processed weight fee and assay fee = $607.70
So, you have to pay less than .60 each to make a profit.
I really don't know how you misinterpreted the refining rates, but perhaps you can explain what went wrong. Perhaps it isn't clear enough. Fresh eyes always see things differently than eys that see the same thing day in and day out.
I've said this many times before, War nickels are a terrible investment if you are looking for silver. They are difficult to refine and not very liquid in the market. You can find much better deals and get much better refining rates for scrap sterling silver items. War nickels are the red-headed step child of silver investments. No offense intended towards war nickle investors, red heads, or step children. And, I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
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TXBullion
Penny Collector Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 22:44:23
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MH, Just out of curiosity,
* Platinum and Palladium items must be melted and assayed regardless of form received
Is that due to some type of federal regulation or refiner protocol? |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 00:45:49
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totalcount, thanks... I made a few changes based on your feedback. There is no payout for the copper contained in PM scrap. It is too small to make it economically feasible to extract.
TXBullion, That is just a policy that we follow. It ensures accuracy of payouts for jewelry, as well as authenticating 100% of the bullion that comes in. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Klark Cent
Penny Sorter Member
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 20:59:08
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"War nickels are a terrible investment if you are looking for silver."
How do you feel about 40% silver half dollars? |
Edited by - Klark Cent on 08/20/2010 21:00:57 |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 12:48:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Klark Cent
How do you feel about 40% silver half dollars?
They are great if you can buy them for 50 cents each. As an investment, 40% is not a good choice. Just pay for the INDUSTRY STANDARD... .999 fine silver or gold. When it comes to sell, you will have the most buyers willing to pay the best prices for something that is ready to be used for another application. As anything less than pure, there is additional work that needs to go into something in order for it to have more value. At 40% silver, there is a substantial amount of work that still needs to go into it before it has a market. Therefore, the buy price from wholesalers is going to be much lower than for a comparable amount of .999 silver.
Selling to another investor or collector is a different story, and a much much much smaller market. |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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Klark Cent
Penny Sorter Member
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 20:01:35
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| Thanks MH |
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rickygee
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 20:06:56
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| Thanks MH. I've got one of your copper trade bars and I really like that hunk of metal. Enjoy your posts too. |
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Refining rates just got better
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