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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
 Posted - 07/02/2010 : 08:58:31
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I would like to ask our esteemed members if they are aware of silver supply inventory and mining figures that do not stem from silver institute?
I am looking for another source or multiple sources to back up current supply and demand theory.
Any relevant material links would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to all...
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"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
Edited by - cptindy on 07/02/2010 08:58:57 |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 16:01:50
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I had question of doubt and was looking for possibly another verifiable source. It seems intriguing that such information could be so easily obtained and lead to a simple conclusion.
We are going to run mighty slim on silver in ten years. I guess with all my consideration I was just looking for additional affirmation that what I read is so true! It seems a little scary thinking about the fact that again, this information is readily available yet the market prices this metal so cheap.
Given the increasing industrial demand which from what I read is pretty heavily increasing. How this metal is so cheap is amazing. I honestly arise in doubt based on its availability at the moment for what I believe is an insanely low price.
Does that make any sense? |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 17:33:25
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Alot of info on USGS.You can see if their numbers jive with the SI.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
Available again! $100 of Copper Lincoln Memorials for $145 shipped. |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 18:49:28
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| I had looked once for other reference data and didn't have much luck other than the SI. But you are right to question and want the best data possible!! |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 23:30:42
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I was looking over the SI numbers over the last ten years and was wondering how could the total supply equal the demand exactly?
No excess supply or decreased demand over 10 years.Maybe I'm missing something here but how could that be.I'm suspicious now too!
Whats with the implied net investment numbers,what do they mean?
They seem to be rising and really took off in 2009. |
Available again! $100 of Copper Lincoln Memorials for $145 shipped. |
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PennyPauper
Penny Collector Member
USA
395 Posts |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 08:56:21
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Like many of you I read a lot and search trying to find answers
I one article I read a wild claiming that the USGS stated in a report that the silver supply would be exaused by 2020. So, like most I wanted to know if this was truth or fiction!
So I did my own research and contacted the source:
William E. Brooks, Ph.D.
Arsenic, Mercury, and Silver Mineral Commodity Specialist
National Minerals Information Center - U.S. Geological Survey
989 National Center - Reston, VA 20192
His response....
This is in response to your request for information about a quote found in a May 29, 2009 internet article entitled “Silver-Long Term” by David Morgan. In the article, the author reportedly indicates that U.S. Geological Survey forecasted that “we’ll run out of silver around 2020.”
It is important to indicate that the USGS does not forecast or make such forward-looking statements. Our responsibility is to compile commodity-specific information that includes state and mine production data, prices, legislation, uses, international production, recycling, and similar topics. Please feel free to examine our reports at: You must be logged in to see this link. click Minerals Information, then click commodity, and then on the alphabet listing, click “s” for silver. Our most extensive silver publication is the Yearbook and we also provide mid-to-late year data in the Mineral Commodity Summaries. Special reports are also listed on the USGS website.
This information, from the Introduction to the Mineral Commodity Summaries publication, will help you better understand our role and responsibilities:
"National reserves and reserve base information for most mineral commodities found in this report, including those for the United States, are derived from a variety of sources. The ideal source of such information would be comprehensive evaluations that apply the same criteria to deposits in different geographic areas and report the results by country. In the absence of such evaluations, national reserves and reserve base estimates compiled by countries for selected mineral commodities are a primary source of national reserves and reserve base information. Lacking national assessment information by governments, sources such as academic articles, company reports, common business practice, presentations by company representatives, and trade journal articles, or a combination of these, serve as the basis for national reserves and reserve base information reported in the mineral commodity sections of this publication.
A national estimate may be assembled from the following: historically reported reserves and reserve base information carried for years without alteration because no new information is available; historically reported reserves and reserve base reduced by the amount of historical production; and company reported reserves. International minerals availability studies conducted by the U.S. Bureau of Mines, before 1996, and estimates of identified resources by an international collaborative effort (the International Strategic Minerals Inventory) are the basis for some reserves and reserve base estimates.
The USGS collects information about the quantity and quality of mineral resources but does not directly measure reserves, and companies or governments do not directly report reserves or reserve base to the USGS.
Reassessment of reserves and reserve base is a continuing process, and the intensity of this process differs for mineral commodities, countries, and time period."
Also, silver is a byproduct for most production, and reserves may not accurately reflect silver content. There are rarely mines that only produce silver. For example, one of the more important domestic Pb-Zn-Ag mines that voluntarily reports to us does not even list silver, an important byproduct at this mine, on its website. And at other domestic mines, gold, copper, or molybdenum occupy the reporting spotlight and silver, a byproduct, receives less attention. At least in the U.S., many companies only look 3 to 5 years out when evaluating reserves, so even though silver is extracted, more is being "found" in (gold, copper, lead-zinc, and molybdenum) exploration that may or may not offset the quantity that is extracted.
Additionally, the U.S. Mint keeps custodial assets of silver. These are referred to as “deep storage” and “working stock.” Deep storage inventories for 2008 and 2007 were 7,075,171 FTO (or 220 t) as indicated in the 2009 Mineral Commodity Summaries publication. Deep storage data are available in the U.S. Mint 2008 Annual Report (p. 54) which is available online.
Also......... Looking at the Introduction in the Mineral Commodity Summaries 2010:
"Throughout the history of Mineral Commodity Summaries and its predecessor prior to 1978, Commodity Data Summaries, the presentation of resource data has evolved. Although world resources have been discussed each year, presentation of reserves and reserve base data varied. From 1957 through 1979, only reserves information was published in the reports, but from 1980 through 1987, only estimates of reserve base, a concept introduced by the U.S. Bureau of Mines (USBM) and the USGS in 1980, were published. Beginning in 1988, both reserves and reserve base information were listed for each mineral commodity where applicable and available. Prior to 1996, the minerals availability studies conducted by the USBM and work with international collaborators were the basis for reserve base data reported in Mineral Commodity Summaries. When the USBM was closed in 1996, this function was discontinued. Since that time, reserve base estimates have been updated to be consistent with changes in reserves, but the nonreserves component of the information upon which the reserve base data were estimated is not current enough to support defensible reserve base estimates. For that reason, publication of reserve base estimates was discontinued for Mineral Commodity Summaries 2010.
So, now with all this as a backdrop...What say you?
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 09:27:08
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I think it would be helpful in this conversation to also look back at a little history...
In 1981 according to Roy Markon, then the commissioner of the Federal Property Resources Services and the official in charge of sales and purchases for the stockpile, was quoted as saying, “We do not have silver missiles or silver bullets in our arsenals. It is far more important for us to have adequate supplies of cobalt, chromium, manganese or titanium than it is for us to maintain excess stocks of silver in our inventory.”
To explain further, today several agencies oversee what is deemed “strategic materials” for the United States. These agencies are in charge of the efforts including the Defense National Stockpile Center (DNSC) which studies the projected domestic and foreign economic effects of all acquisitions and disposals of materials from the National Defense Stockpile (NDS) that are to be included in the Annual Materials Plan (AMP) submitted by the DNSC to Congress. This advice helps DNSC to meet its statutory obligation to limit undue market impact caused by material acquisitions or disposals while also protecting the government from avoidable loss. Formally established under the National Defense Authorization Act of FY 1993, amending the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act, the MIC is co-chaired by the Departments of Commerce and State and includes representatives from the Departments of Interior (Geological Survey), Treasury, Transportation, Agriculture, Energy, and Defense (DNSC), and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Commerce is represented on the MIC by SIES staff with technical support provided by the Office of Materials, Machinery, and Chemicals of the Department’s International Trade Administration. These agency representatives bring substantial experience and expertise in mineral commodities markets to MIC deliberations. The NDS is a reserve of strategic and critical materials which are unavailable in the U.S. in sufficient quantities to meet anticipated national security emergency requirements. DNSC manages the Stockpile by acquiring, disposing, and warehousing these materials. Because there is little need to maintain an extensive stockpile in the global marketplace of the post-Cold War era, Congress has authorized the disposal of most Stockpile materials.
The Strategic Metals War by James E. Sinclair and Robert Parker
1983 ISBN 0-517-54826 - page 122
Background: Defense National Stockpile silver sales:
Source: You must be logged in to see this link.
The impetus of the American Silver Eagle bullion program ultimately comes from executive plans through the 1970s and early 1980s to sell off silver from the Defense National Stockpile. As the Wall Street Journal explains, "[s]everal administrations had sought unsuccessfully to sell silver from the stockpile, arguing that domestic production of silver far exceeds strategic needs. But mining-state interests had opposed any sale, as had promilitary legislators who wanted assurances that the proceeds would be used to buy materials more urgently needed for the stockpile rather than merely to reduce the federal deficit." Throughout the period, such sell-offs that did occur, as well as announcements of planned sell-offs, caused immediate declines in the price of silver. Indeed, the Wall Street Journal reported in September 1976 that "[w]hen the US government makes noises about selling silver from the federal stockpile, futures traders start unloading futures contracts in speculation that such a sale would depress prices."
Despite congressional opposition to the sale of stockpiled silver through early June 1981, the House Armed Services Committee decided on June 10 to approve a Reagan administration request to sell government-owned silver beginning in fiscal year 1982 to help balance the federal budget. In July 1981, the House and Senate came to an agreement to allow the sale of 75% of the stockpiled silver (105.1 million troy ounces) over a three-year period and in September the price of silver fell 11% in response. Just before the first sale in October 1981, a group of politicians from Idaho—a major silver-producing state—attempted to block the auction claiming that the sale could have a "disastrous effect" on the United States silver mining industry in general and several Idaho silver mining companies in particular. On December 3, 1981, Senator James A. McClure (R-Idaho) proposed an amendment (S.UP.AMDT.738) to the Department of Defense appropriation bill (H.R. 4995) to end the government's sale of silver "until the President, not later than July 1, 1982, redetermines that the silver authorized for disposal is excess to the requirements of the stockpile." The appropriations bill was signed into law (Public Law 97-114) with the amendment intact, effectively stopping the further sale of stockpiled silver.
Coinage Legislation
On May 27, 1982, Senator McClure introduced bill S. 2598, "A bill to provide for the disposal of silver from the National Defense Stockpile through the issuance of silver coins," to "redirect the sale of silver from our national defense stockpile in an effort to minimize its affect on the already depressed price of silver."[14] An identical companion bill, H.R. 6649, was introduced on June 22 by Representative Larry E. Craig (R-Idaho) but both bills were referred to committees and never were enacted. The Wall Street Journal reported on June 30 that the price of silver "soared after Interior Secretary James Watt announced that sales of the government's silver stockpile will be indefinitely postponed" as the government's legally required study on potential methods of selling the silver had been delayed.
On January 27, 1983, Senator McClure introduced another bill (S. 269) almost identical to S. 2598. As he had in the earlier bill, the senator asked,
... if we are forced to accept a sale, why use the method guaranteed to depress the price and dispose of the silver with the lowest possible return to the taxpayers Why not instead, if we must sell, at least get as much for it as we can? Therefore, today, I am introducing legislation which provides that in the event the President proposes and Congress authorizes the sale of silver from the strategic stockpile, this silver would be sold through the minting and distribution of a silver-bearing coin.
The bill was referred to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs which held hearings on April 15, 1983, however, it was not enacted.
Some two years later, with sales still suspended, Senator McClure again introduced legislation aimed at requiring potential sales of stockpiled silver to be conducted through the issuance of coins minted from the silver. This time his legislation took the form of an amendment (S.AMDT.418[18]) to H.R. 47, the "Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Commemorative Coin Act". McClure's amendment—the "Liberty Coin Act"—added a new section (Title II) to H.R. 47. The amendment may be summarized into the follow points:
Authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue silver bullion coins
Coin specifications including diameter, weight, fineness, general design, inscriptions, and edge finish
Coin sales
Numismatic and legal tender statuses
Purchase of silver from stockpile
Effective date of October 1, 1985, and stipulation that no coins may be issued or sold before September 1, 1986
Proposed on June 21, 1985, the Senate agreed to McClure's amendment by voice vote on the same day and it was added to H.R. 47; the House approved the amended bill three days later and it was signed into law by President Reagan on July 9, 1985. Thus, the authorizing law for the American Silver Eagle bullion program is Title II of Public Law 99-61 (Liberty Coin Act) codified as 31 U.S.C. § 5112(e)-(h).
Program extension, 2002
The authorizing legislation for the American Silver Eagle bullion program stipulated that the silver used to mint the coins be acquired from the Defense National Stockpile with the intent to deplete the stockpile's silver holdings slowly over several years. By 2002, it became apparent that the stockpile would be depleted and that further legislation would be required for the program to continue. On June 6, 2002, Senator Harry Reid (D-Nevada) introduced bill S. 2594, "Support of American Eagle Silver Bullion Program Act," "to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to purchase silver on the open market when the silver stockpile is depleted." The bill was passed by the Senate on June 21 and by the House on June 27 and signed into law (Pub.L. 107-201, 116 Stat. 736) by President Bush on July 23, 2002.
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 11:28:12
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Thank you for this information.
If I may,I would like to make an attempt to bring out items that sound awful weird, here goes.
When the USBM was closed in 1996, this function was discontinued. Since that time, reserve base estimates have been updated to be consistent with changes in reserves, but the non reserves component of the information upon which the reserve base data were estimated is not current enough to support defensible reserve base estimates. For that reason, publication of reserve base estimates was discontinued for Mineral Commodity Summaries 2010.
Geological surveys and reserve surveys seem to have been slowly dismissed and passed over to defense organizations.
To explain further, today several agencies oversee what is deemed “strategic materials” for the United States. These agencies are in charge of the efforts including the Defense National Stockpile Center (DNSC) which studies the projected domestic and foreign economic effects of all acquisitions and disposals of materials from the National Defense Stockpile (NDS) that are to be included in the Annual Materials Plan (AMP) submitted by the DNSC to Congress. This advice helps DNSC to meet its statutory obligation to limit undue market impact caused by material acquisitions or disposals while also protecting the government from avoidable loss.
I find it strange that this information clearly shows a trend to not answer the question. National Supply has been reduced and dismissed to a levels that seem to be irrelevant to discuss.
I don't get it?
As we have no "silver bullets" we have large amounts of electronic applications that require silver in our technology. Modern Weapons require this element. We are entering a state of war across the planet.
When it comes down to it I am even more confused! I get it is a by product. Which seems makes this even more difficult to asses.
Where is the silver?
Why is it left off the books? Government tend to not disolve agencies, only expand.
What is its purpose to the Military? Why is silver directly under Defense Stockpiles?
Most indications point to reserves being sold to the public to generate funds. Yet the funds made seem minuscule for any effective use beyond paying the salary of those managing.
It seems to me that the only information is comex deposits? Which have already been proven bogus.
If I had to guess I would say that the near future will bring Major government intervetion into all mining activity!
There seems to be a "conspiracy" here!
HAHA! |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 14:54:58
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| cptindy even with all the information I agree that there are more questions than real answers! |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 15:06:38
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Here is a question for the group! How can you explain that nothing has happened since Andrew Maguire exposes the largest financial fraud in human history?
JP Morgan is manipulating the market, and for every 100 ounces of silver and gold held in paper or electronically, there is only 1 ounce in the vault.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Why has nothing happened to change this fraud that is currently taking place? Why is the CFTC sitting in it's hands?
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 20:34:47
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Yeah, if the answer was simple and positive then it would have been made public already.
Who knows, maybe silver is ACTUALLY as common as copper, but in order to manipulate the price, its true availability is hid.
Perhaps silver is readily available, but quantities are being diverted for some yet unpublished application that will play a part in the domination of the planet by one group/country.
yeah..... real answers WOULD be nice! |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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Sheikh_yer_BuTay
Penny Pincher Member
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 00:01:59
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Do you guys ever read Theodore Butler? Google him. He has his own web-site and is on SilverSeek.com often. Ted Butler is a long-time critic of the Security Exchange Commission. According to Ted, silver spot is being manipulated in an extremely criminal manner. He often quotes COT reports and CFTC reports. His latest article is:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Hope that helps. |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 19:06:28
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Great link! Mr. Butay!
Moral of the story
Silence is Golden! or shall it be SILVER!!! |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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True Silver Supply Information?
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