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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
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brian0918
Penny Collector Member
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 20:16:55
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The argument is not convincing. 10 million gallons sounds like a lot, and a toxicity level of a few ppm sounds like very little, but the gulf is a big place - about 650 million billion gallons of water. The dispersants are being released near the leak, not on the surface, so they are not just evaporating into the atmosphere. Is there even any evidence that these sorts of chemicals can ride up water vapor to the clouds?
Again, maybe it would be convincing if they actually crunched the numbers, but without that, they are just playing in to the public's irrational fear of "chemicals". |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand
Searched: $2230 Nickels; Liberty: 1; Buffalo: 4; War: 20; 2009: 2; 2010D: 8 |
Edited by - brian0918 on 06/21/2010 20:20:12 |
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 21:29:18
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| I think that's more snow than toxic rain. |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 00:19:08
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"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2010 : 06:40:57
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quote:
the public's irrational fear of "chemicals
Tell that to the people who lived near the Love Canal.
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brian0918
Penny Collector Member
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 09:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by redneck
Tell that to the people who lived near the Love Canal.
That's a good example of the result of government intervention into the economy - in this case, purchasing land that the owner refused to sell due to the contamination, and then choosing to build a school on the land, despite the well-known danger. From Wikipedia:
quote:
The local school board was desperate for land, and attempted to purchase an area of property from Hooker Chemical that had been used to bury toxic waste. The corporation refused to sell, citing safety concerns, and even took members of the school board to the canal and drilled several bore holes through the clay, to demonstrate that there were toxic chemicals below the surface. However, the board refused to capitulate. Eventually, faced with the property being condemned and/or expropriated, Hooker Chemical agreed to sell on the condition that the board buy the entire property for one dollar. In the agreement signed on April 28, 1953, Hooker included a seventeen line caveat that explained the dangers of building on the site.
The fear should not be of chemicals, but of government negligence and intervention into the economy.
That is the same reason for the BP spill: a) government banning drilling near the shore, or on land, b) government incentivizing companies to drill in risky, deep waters, by capping liability and offering subsidy, and c) government prohibition against private ownership of open waters, removing the natural market incentive to avoid pollution.
Obviously, BP was foolish for taking the government's bait, and believing their liability would actually be capped.
The lesson to learn from all of this is that if the government gives you some incentive to do something or buy something, you should probably not trust it. A relevant example is the first-time home buyer tax credit, encouraging people to buy overpriced homes that are about to plummet in value. |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand
Searched: $2230 Nickels; Liberty: 1; Buffalo: 4; War: 20; 2009: 2; 2010D: 8 |
Edited by - brian0918 on 06/22/2010 09:47:17 |
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darsemnos
Penny Sorter Member
96 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 20:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by brian0918
The argument is not convincing. 10 million gallons sounds like a lot, and a toxicity level of a few ppm sounds like very little, but the gulf is a big place - about 650 million billion gallons of water. The dispersants are being released near the leak, not on the surface, so they are not just evaporating into the atmosphere. Is there even any evidence that these sorts of chemicals can ride up water vapor to the clouds?
Again, maybe it would be convincing if they actually crunched the numbers, but without that, they are just playing in to the public's irrational fear of "chemicals".
They may be playing to fear, the the fear of chemicals is anything but irrational. Bisphenol A cuases birth defects, and is basically everywhere. It makes male frogs go female and start laying eggs.
There's a lot of nasty stuff we put out there and to claim that the fear of these things is irrational is to deny reality. |
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brian0918
Penny Collector Member
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 20:20:21
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Originally posted by darsemnos
They may be playing to fear, the the fear of chemicals is anything but irrational. Bisphenol A cuases birth defects, and is basically everywhere. It makes male frogs go female and start laying eggs.
Water is poisonous too... in You must be logged in to see this link.. Every chemical is everywhere, so get over that fact. What determines whether or not a given chemical is detrimental to your system is the size of the dose.
It is not irrational to fear a chemical that is present in a large enough dose to cause damage. It is irrational to fear a chemical regardless of dose.
A similar irrationality fuels the belief in holistic medicine. |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand
Searched: $2230 Nickels; Liberty: 1; Buffalo: 4; War: 20; 2009: 2; 2010D: 8 |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 20:56:53
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quote:
Originally posted by brian0918
quote:
Originally posted by darsemnos
They may be playing to fear, the the fear of chemicals is anything but irrational. Bisphenol A cuases birth defects, and is basically everywhere. It makes male frogs go female and start laying eggs.
Water is poisonous too... in You must be logged in to see this link.. Every chemical is everywhere, so get over that fact. What determines whether or not a given chemical is detrimental to your system is the size of the dose.
It is not irrational to fear a chemical that is present in a large enough dose to cause damage. It is irrational to fear a chemical regardless of dose.
A similar irrationality fuels the belief in holistic medicine.
It also drives people out of the part of Ashtabula, Ohio that happen to contain Chemical plants due to proven independent and government statistics of extremely high rates of cancers in that area. How irrational can you get? Suck it up people, it's only cancer..err.. I mean chemicals. |
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Think positive. |
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1273 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2010 : 22:16:33
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How irrational can you get? Suck it up people, it's only cancer..err.. I mean chemicals.
Bingo...
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brian0918
Penny Collector Member
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2010 : 08:52:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
It also drives people out of the part of Ashtabula, Ohio that happen to contain Chemical plants due to proven independent and government statistics of extremely high rates of cancers in that area.
If studies have shown it, then that kind of evidence should stand up in court, and is certainly not an irrational fear.
BTW, I grew up in Conneaut... small world. |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand
Searched: $2230 Nickels; Liberty: 1; Buffalo: 4; War: 20; 2009: 2; 2010D: 8 |
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Verrrry Bad Acid Trip
Forum Locked
Posted - 06/21/2010 : 19:47:32
