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Beau
Penny Pincher Member
216 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2010 : 02:48:16
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I have seen an 1804, 1797, 1869, 1873, 1878, and a pile of morgans like these.
Everett, owner of Tiah’s Coins and Currency on Fort Campbell Boulevard, has accumulated more than 550 seemingly rare coins brought in by soldiers returning from the two countries who’ve been led to believe they’ll make money selling the coins back in the U.S.
“They’re not realizing they’re committing a felony,” Everett said.
The coins are counterfeit — worth nothing more than the 22 grams of steel they’re made from.
Of particular concern for Everett is the small stack of 1804 silver dollars he’s collected. Only about 15 legitimate coins exist, with some valued at more than $4 million.
“The 1804 dollar is one of the most publicized rarities in the entire series of U.S. coins,” says the “Red Book,” the official buyer’s guide to U.S. coins.
Everett has 10 of the coins himself, all of them counterfeit, all of them brought in by soldiers returning from combat.
“These guys are getting ripped,” Everett said.
Everett proudly displays a photograph brought to him by a chaplain at Fort Campbell of an Afghan man on a U.S. base selling coins on a blanket. The man, in tattered clothes and with dirty fingers, is wearing a pass around his neck that allows him access to the base.
“They’re not living in a castle over there,” he said of the Afghan peddlers. “Where’s the money going?
“The ironic thing is he’s got a pass to get on post.”
Everett can only assume the worst.
“We’re assuming the money is going back to the enemy,” he said. “What fears me worst is these (soldiers) could be buying their own bullets to be shot at them.”
Leaders of the 3rd Brigade Combat Team in Afghanistan say Everett’s assumption is a “stretch,” but it is possible.
“It is no secret that many of the Afghan contractors who work building our (forward operating bases) have to pay for protection or pay ‘taxes’ to stay alive,” the brigade said in a response to e-mailed questions. “It is reasonable to think the vendors selling trinkets in the bazaar must do the same.”
Beyond Afghan borders
John Gilreath, owner of Golden Eagle Jewelry on Riverside Drive, also said this is an ongoing problem. Last week, he said, a soldier in Afghanistan called, asking about the authenticity of an 1804 dollar he found.
“We see hundreds of them,” Gilreath said.
Gilreath has seen “silver” dollars dated between 1878 and 1904, trade dollars dated between 1873 and 1878 and “seated liberty” dollars dated 1869 and earlier — all of them fake.
“The real problem you have is they’re not made of silver,” he said. “They have absolutely no value at all.”
Gilreath said the problem is larger than some might realize, and not contained in Afghanistan.
“Every rare coin that’s ever been made has been counterfeited in Iraq,” he said.
Gilreath and Everett both said China is actively producing counterfeit coins and selling them online at sites like eBay and Craigslist, with little done to stop them.
“The Chinese are making some incredibly good counterfeits that are very hard to detect,” Gilreath said.
Clarksville not alone
Jim Dimmick, who owns Jim Dimmick Coins in Fayetteville, N.C., said he too has seen counterfeit coins coming back from overseas.
“There’s a lot of them coming back,” he said.
Fayetteville is in the foothills of Fort Bragg, one of the biggest military installations in the country and a place where many soldiers have returned from Iraq and Afghanistan this year.
Many of the coins Dimmick has seen have been made of “pot metal,” or the same material used to make simple pots and pans.
Dimmick said he’s talked with soldiers who have spent as little as $2 or $3, and others who have spent far more.
“I know one guy spent $400 thinking he was going to make some money, and when he came in he was just devastated,” he said.
Everett too said the amounts spent on the coins varies. The most he’s seen is a soldier who spent $800.
“All I can say is ‘I’m sorry,’” he said.
How far the problem reaches might never be known.
“Some people are actually selling them to other people in the community,” Dimmick said.
Everett and Gilreath said some coins have turned up at Clarksville flea markets and even at businesses as active currency.
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2010 : 23:10:48
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Yes,
Who knows what all this counterfieting will do to the coin market and coin collecting in the end.
It will only be an elite group who will be 'qualified' to determine authenticity and then we will all be left to their choices and mistakes.
Don't know what more to say. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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AGCoinHunter
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
685 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 09:16:02
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You don’t have to be in an elite group to determine authenticity on a majority of these fakes. Educating oneself the series and looking for key indicators can usually discern a fake from an authentic coin. There is a vast image database on Herritage that have very detailed pictures of authentic coins that you can compare in order to see if they are fake. A lot of times if it doesn’t look right and your instincts tell you its fake, it most likely is.
Where this gets dicey is when the are in fake slabs from one of the big three "authenticators." (NGC, PCGS, ANACS) These are beginning to show up in the market as of late. They are trying to take steps to make this harder to do but there are millions of old slabs out there that can be faked.
A few things to remember:
1) Educate yourself on the type of coin.
2) Always be weary when buying raw coins.
3) Don’t be afraid ask around. Not to push any websites but the coin community family website is a great resource for learning and asking questions to check to see if a coin is authentic. There is a vast range of coin experts there that are willing to help anyone out.
4) Never buy an expensive coin from someone who won’t return it. A goat herder in Afghanistan isn’t going to take back your 1804 fake.
5) If it’s too good to be true, it most likely is. You won’t find rare and expensive coins at a flea market.
You can educate yourself to find authentic coins. Just takes time.
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 11:11:03
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No, I agree with you on these points. I was being half sarcastic.
And most of us need not worry( I hope), since most of the high quality counterfeits will be of mid to high rarity level coins(coins worth more than $500 apiece, even $5000 a piece and more for the really high quality fakes).
At least, that is what I think will be the case.
IF they start doing high quality fakes of mid rarity buffalo nickels and then wearing them down to look G-XF and selling these for $25-$150..... Something like that could affect any of us! And would be truly nausiating indeed.
If someone puts their mind to it and has the resources, a coin isn't the hardest thing to fake. Or so it seems to my humble mind. Pot metal fakes? Easy to spot. Fakes made of 90% silver...done with high quality dies on real coin presses? Might be tough even for some of us 'seasoned' amateurs. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 12:49:53
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I know a guy locally who bought a PCGS Morgan dollar for $1000 from a seller off of Craigslist. Turns out the coin was a fake and the seller had tampered with the container. Of course the the seller had his phone turned off and the guy could never track him down. So he was out his $1000.
Personally, I would only buy a high end coin from a reputable dealer. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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wolvesdad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2164 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 14:10:32
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| Even then, with the possibility of high quality tampering on graded coins, even that dealer could miss the tampering or if he was less than 'reputable' ignore so as not to be out the $1000. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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counterfeit high dollar coins
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