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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2007 : 13:54:32
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Thought I would start a link with equipment links for sorting. Have everything all in one place.
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1035 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 13:56:58
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Here's a nice digital scale. Selling for $20.98 (.99 + $19.99 shipping) on EBay. Got mine today. Works great and has calibration weights and batteries with it. Goes 2 digits bast the decimal on grams, also does oz. Perfect for determining those copper vs. zincs. Note that he has different descriptions for the same scale. The one I bought said for doing grains on gunpowder. The ones that he describes as for gold and silver coins end up getting bid higher, but it's the same model he's selling for all of them.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
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coincollector101
Penny Sorter Member
86 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 09:29:51
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I bought this one.
It goes up to 150 Pounds.
Its one like the post office's use with a metal top.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Hes got many other scales there a pretty big price diffence from his other models to this one but this one is so nice. |
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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 11:47:08
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I think this is a great topic. I'd really be interested in coin sorters that people are using that support alloy detection capable of distinguishing between the Cu/Zn/Ni/Ag coin types. I'd also like to hear about what has not worked for people, as that can be equally valuable.
Here's my contribution:
- Ryedale -- This should be your first sorter. It works and it works well. It doesn't make mistakes, unlike some of the multi-thousand dollar sorters. You can fix it yourself. And you get support from Andy! I'm repeating myself, but I used my Ryedale for quality control in my sorting with the big expensive sorters.
- Reis CC2000 -- I bought my first CC2000 from a guy on this list that 4 of them cranking away on pennies before the melt ban. I owe him a big debt, as it was my first into to a machine that could sort large volumes of alloy. They are made in Germany and are a little hard to find in the US. A good used one will go for $2-3K (shameless plug - I have one for sale on eBay - ending today). A new one will run $7-8K. These are built like a German tank; I highly recommend these (hint).
- ScanCoin/Perconta SC400/420 -- What a beautiful machine. Designed in Sweden. I brought a set of test coins to the dealer and tried it out. It worked perfectly, so I picked one up for $6.5K. When I started using it in production, I found out that the alloy detector wasn't sensitive enough. Ouch! That was an expensive mistake. Note that other ScanCoin systems have different detector systems, and they are more than sensitive enough. but you have to test carefully.
- Cummins JetSort -- I really wanted one of these, as I thought Cummins was top-of-the line. However, they did not have alloy detection at the time (1H2007). I was told that they would have it in 2H2007, but I have not checked back in. Subsequently, I have heard many horror stories about jams due to bent coins, etc. I'd research these carefully before purchasing.
- ScanCoin SC4000 -- This is one of the ultimate machines. It is used by most of the Mints in the world. It has an amazing ability to sort on any possible aspect of coins 4,000 coins per minute throughput -- this is real throughput, not just a "rating". Seriously expensive, starting at $35K and going from there. I have one of these that I will put up on eBay shortly. Contact me if you are interested. It doesn't get better than this.
I've heard lots of good stuff about De LaRue in terms of quality, but I don't know about their alloy detection capability. I'd assume they have it, but haven't heard. Does anyone have one of these? I've heard good stuff about Brandt as well, which I think De LaRue purchase a few years ago.
That's about all I know. I hope some of you large volume guys out there will share some of you valuable info.
MaDecue
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Miser-stro
Penny Sorter Member
74 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 16:28:24
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Hello! Brand new member here..............and sorter too for that matter! I just got hip to the idea of sorting copper a little over a week ago. Days later jumping into it full steam ahead...... I have since ordered and received my first Rydale, and just got an awesome deal on a Semacon CM-65 roll crimper.
Now I need a counter. Does anyone know enough about the Klopp counters to recommend them?? I particularly like the CM (manual) model. It looks like it should more than keep up with my current sort rate. I have seen clean ones sell on ebay for a modest price (compared to their $1200 tag new!). Are they built and do they work as good as they look?? Thanks in advance for any input!
Miser-stro |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 19:54:19
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| Miser-stro.. welcome to the forum. You certainly made the right choice with a Ryedale for your sorter.. great machine! Easily the best bang for your buck when it comes to coin machines.. and the guy that makes it is one of us! Klopp is a good brand of counter. They make good solid machines and have made them for years. One thing to consider when getting a counter is what volume level you plan on doing with it. Just about everyone I know that has ever had one of those manual hand crank counters has switched to an electric model. Turning that crank can just wear you out. Much better to get an automated electric one. I am partial to the Glory brand counters. The 2 Glory CN-12 machines I have each count 1800 coins a minute directly into a bag. I also have a De La Rue Mach 7 which I really love that sorts/counts 4000 coins a minute. That is a bit more machine than most folks really need. I still have a Downey Johnson analog machine that I occasionally use.. that thing is built like a tank and I have used it for years. For rolling I have 2 Glory WS-10 automatic rolling machines. They will each roll 10 rolls a minute or they will do free count at the rate of 1400 coins per minute. I reallized early on that I wanted to spend as little time rerolling the pennies as possible. Automatic rolling machines can be kind of expensive but it is really sweet watching them chunk out those rolls while you are sorting more pennies with your Ryedale. Another thing to take into consideration when buying machines is shipping cost. A lot of really great machines are really heavy so they are not cheap to ship. Also some sellers inflate shipping costs so you definately want to know what the shipping cost is going to be before purchasing. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 22:14:35
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Here is my experience with sorting/hoarding equipment:
I have 3 Ryedale Machines; 1 Artist + 2 Apprentices. I've sorted over 4.5 Million coins with these 3 machines. My original Artist has 3.1 Million sort count to date. I've hoarder over 3 tons of US and Canadian Copper and over a 1 ton of Canadian .999Ni with these machines. I've been hoarding since late February 2007.
I'm a serious hobbyist hoarder and a typical week is sorting $500 to $800 Face Value. When I only had 1 Ryedale, there were times I'd have several weeks of collecting that needed to be sorted...and I would spend all day Saturday sorting to get through $1500 - $2000....it became obvious to buy another Ryedale....then I got into the "Zinc Resorting" to look for the really old "Wheats"....and bought a 3rd Ryedale Machine. I can now do a $600 sort and zinc resort in about 90 minutes... Having 3 machines, frees up a lot of time when you are on a 3-4 tons of copper/yr hoarding pace.
I now have a few Credit Union/Banks I can use to dump bulk loose zinc....but earlier on in my hoarding, I returned wrapped zinc ....to trade for fresh un-sorted bank boxes. I used a Brandt 1830 ....20 rolls a minute....very nice, but zinc dumping is 10X better - if you can manage that situation in your area....I have now not wrapped zincs in over 4 months. I ran into a deal on 3 used Brandt 1835C's and bought them up....I may be in the mode of selling several wrapping machines later this winter. These Brandt are machines that cost over $20,000 new...big, complicated, expensive machines (300 lbs weight per machine).
The best "bang for the buck" tool I've ever purchased is a $62 Royal Postage/Freight Scale from Sam's Club...remote digital read-out, 300+lb capacity, resolution to ##.## in 0.05lb increments, also has lbs+oz, kg modes. I use this to make $50 zinc bags for the Credit Union returns....it will weigh/count 5000 zincs within 10-20 cents per bag. With that accuracy....why bother with commercial counters....I bet they are not that accurate!!!
That's all the comments for now....I'll post some more later.
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 07:31:12
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"I now have a few Credit Union/Banks I can use to dump bulk loose zinc....but earlier on in my hoarding, I returned wrapped zinc ...."
The couple of places that I have asked have said no to returning bulk zincs. Did you just walk into a bank and say "Hey I'd like to return $50 bags of pennies?" or is there some trick to it. Also where do you aquire the bags and how much do they cost?
Thanks |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 15:21:54
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| horgad, This is why they have a bank on every corner.. if one doesn't do it your way you just walk across the street to another. I had to ask several of my banks before I could find one that would take them loose in bags. It is sweet when you can find a bank that will do that. My counting machines are much faster than my rolling machines. Just go into each bank you have an account at and ask the coin person.. maybe you will get lucky. If you have to buy the bags they run about 50 cents each from banking supply companies, but if you find a bank that will take them by the bag you can usually talk them out of a stack of shipment bags for free too. They like it when the coins come in in their own bags all ready to throw on the truck.. that is if you don't try to unload too many of them on them at one time.. LOL! |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
 Posted - 12/10/2007 : 15:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by c140cessna
The best "bang for the buck" tool I've ever purchased is a $62 Royal Postage/Freight Scale from Sam's Club...remote digital read-out, 300+lb capacity, resolution to ##.## in 0.05lb increments, also has lbs+oz, kg modes. I use this to make $50 zinc bags for the Credit Union returns....it will weigh/count 5000 zincs within 10-20 cents per bag. With that accuracy....why bother with commercial counters....I bet they are not that accurate!!!
I think the scale would work just fine for making up bags that you are going to run through a self service counter, but it you are returning sealed bags to a bank for deposit the count must be accurate to the penny.
You may beat me to 3 tons, but I will match up my Mach 7 or one of my Glory commercial counters against that scale for accuracy any day of the week!  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 19:34:24
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Guys,
I am probably getting too far off topic for this thread, but I'm trying to get a handle on the exact problem y'all are dealing with. The limited sorting I've done in the states, I've been able to dispose of via the free counter at the credit union. When I would go in, they had to change the bag a few times, but other than a small grumble about that, I didn't have problems.
Is the issue that some banks limit the amount of coin you can deposit, so you have to cycle through banks? I used a single bank in Canada, in an attempt to make sure I didn't end up sorting my own rejects. I assume, that if it were possible, you'd be doing the same. Sorry if this is something obvious...
On a somewhat related note... I finally, after much, much, digging, found out that there are only two "coin pools" for the Toronto region. All of the coins that leave a bank because a bank has too many coins, end up in one of the two pools. Within a pool, each bank has it's own coin storage area, but the coins do get swapped. In other words, even though I consistently return coin to Bank A and source coin from Bank B, I may get coins from B that I had returned to A. The whole coin processing infrastructure in Canada is quite strange and counter-intuitive. I wonder how much of this goes on in the US.
Also, do coins have to be rolled to be returned to most banks, or can you return in bags? I always though you could return in bags. If that's the case, then why would someone want to have a rolling machine?
MaDeuce |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 19:57:51
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quote:
On a somewhat related note... I finally, after much, much, digging, found out that there are only two "coin pools" for the Toronto region. All of the coins that leave a bank because a bank has too many coins, end up in one of the two pools. Within a pool, each bank has it's own coin storage area, but the coins do get swapped. In other words, even though I consistently return coin to Bank A and source coin from Bank B, I may get coins from B that I had returned to A. The whole coin processing infrastructure in Canada is quite strange and counter-intuitive. I wonder how much of this goes on in the US.
I can't vouch for anywhere else, but I know that the large city in which I live sounds similar to Toronto---there's a giant warehouse in which each bank is allocated an area to store coins---part of the overall "pool" of coins. In the same pool, there is the occasional bank-to-bank swap. Coins are stored on pallets, and there are very large angry-looking men standing nearby. Coins dumped at Prestigious Honesty Bank could eventually end up at Reputable Upstanding Bank without ever leaving the armored car/banking system. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 21:25:35
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quote:
Originally posted by MaDeuce
Also, do coins have to be rolled to be returned to most banks, or can you return in bags? I always though you could return in bags. If that's the case, then why would someone want to have a rolling machine?
It kind of depends on where you are. It also depends on your bank and even varies from one branch to the next for a given bank. Obviously if you have a bank or credit union with a free coin counter that is ideal. There are none of those in my area yet.. still waiting. For the most part banks don't want to see you coming in with hundreds of pounds of coins that they have to process. They have to consider their employee time, if all these coin deposits cause a disruption in their flow of business, etc. They also have to worry about how much space they have in the vault and if there will be shipping costs for them to transport the coins to their "central vault". Bankers are in business to make money, so they keep a close eye on anything that they are not extracting a fee for. Most of them do not want to take them loose in a bag, even though in the old days that was the form they had to be in to ship to the fed. You certainly wouldn't want to buy a rolling machine if you could get your bank to take them by the bag, but it sure does come in handy if most of your banks require coin to be rolled for deposit. Even if you roll it they will want to limit the quantity you deposit so it doesn't cause them to have any extra work or expense. Only one of my banks allows me to deposit coins in bags, and they cut me back to one deposit of $600 per month after I deposited $2500 one week. I am able to deposit a couple of more bags per week at another branch of the same bank near where I work, but I don't want to push it and have them cut me off. My boss tried to deposit 2 boxes of rolled nickels at another branch of the same bank near her home and they refused the deposit.. telling her it was too much. So each branch of a given bank can have a different policy. My other banks require coin to be rolled to be turned in, and they don't want cartloads of it every day. So I have to limit the number of boxes I turn in. Having a rolling machine also makes it much easier to dump a bunch of zinc rolls on the gas station, grocery store, etc. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 23:28:57
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quote:
Obviously if you have a bank or credit union with a free coin counter that is ideal. There are none of those in my area yet..
When a bank or credit union around your area does get a free coin counter and you discover it......please, please have mercy on them!!
j/k |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 23:42:43
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quote:
Originally posted by fiatboy
[quote]When a bank or credit union around your area does get a free coin counter and you discover it......please, please have mercy on them!!
j/k
LOL.. actually, when one does open up I will try to talk them into selling me all the coin that comes in rather than using it as a dump bank. If I were to start dumping there it would be at lower levels.. I learned about moderation after almost completely screwing up my deal at my current dump bank.  Never, ever take $2500 in zinc to one bank in a week.. they just don't like it. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Miser-stro
Penny Sorter Member
74 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 00:17:06
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Thanks for the Input on the counters HCBTT. You're right, if and when I get an analog counter, I'll probably go electric, unless I just get a steal on a manual model.
I'm just now starting to explore this whole Zinc dumping thing. So far, I'm returning rolls. Which I only plan on doing until I figure out who will accept $50 bags in my area. I live in a small town of about 14,000 and there are at least 12 banks within a 5 minute radius. At the first bank I tried today, the old lady about had a Cow when I walked in with $50 Zinc in rolls. I'd hate to give her a heart attack with any more than that. In fact thats the main reason I wanted a counter was to ACCURATELY count out $50 in a bag, and pull the 'ol switch-a-roo walking out with Cash with zero time delays (the ones normally associated with bank counting, deposits, etc.) for the quickest possible turn-around of Hoard Capital. But then again, unless the bank trust and knows who you are they're going to count your pennies anyway before giving you cash on the spot when you bring in a huge bag loose coins. In that case, a cheap Bathroom scale will get you in that ballpark. I happen to already have a Digital scale accurate to 0.05 lbs. Its a Mettler Toledo PS60, which is a commercial quality scale I bought a couple years ago when I was selling / shipping more stuff on ebay.
In the meantime, I figured out today how to make my Ryedale hopper Count Zinc DIRECTLY into a Coin Roll, ready to take to the bank!! This speeds up my current rolling process 10x. On second thought...... I don't guess I even need a counter at the moment!! |
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c140cessna
Penny Collector Member
USA
419 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 05:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Miser-stro
In the meantime, I figured out today how to make my Ryedale hopper Count Zinc DIRECTLY into a Coin Roll, ready to take to the bank!! This speeds up my current rolling process 10x.
Miser-stro
Please expand on what you are doing with the Ryedale your get it to batch out 50 coins and then stop? I've very interested in this idea. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 11:28:53
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Miser-stro.. treat yourself.. get a digital counter.. they are even more accurate and because of supply and demand you can pick up a fantastic machine for a very reasonable price. Zinc disposal is definately one of the most important parts of the process. If your bank lady got excited about you bringing in 2 boxes of rolled zinc, she would have loved me.. The first weekend after I got my Ryedale I fired up the automatic rollers and rolled up 2300 rolls to take to the bank. That bank lady was not happy with me at all.. she even started using the "F" word (fees).. So I knew I needed to spread my action out a little bit. I still take them a few boxes now and then, but not enough to get them excited.
Those Mettler Toledo scales are one of the best. We use a few of them at work to buy commodities. It would be perfect if you were to find a place where you are going to run it through a self service counter. Not sure if I would trust the counter on the Ryedale to count out zincs for rolls.. the counters on mine have been off a few when the coins are recounted on one of the commercial counters. One of the first counters I got that works really well for batching out a roll and then stopping is a Royal Sovereign. There are usually a hundred of them or so on eBay so you can pick one up cheap. Whether you use your Ryedale or an RS to count out your rolls it would not hurt to pop them on a small digital scale and verify the count by weight before depositing them in the bank. A full roll of zinc will weigh about 126 grams. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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Miser-stro
Penny Sorter Member
74 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 12:42:34
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| HCBTT.... I checked out those Royal Sovereign counters on ebay, in particular the FS-4DA. They look handy, but I kinda wonder about the quality of something that you can buy new for 90 bucks. How long will it last? Also, the Ryedale counting / rolling mechanism I came up with does not rely on the machine's counter. Its VERY simple actually. I will post a few pics soon in a new topic. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 13:31:29
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| Miser-stro.. I have had my Royal Sovereign for a couple of years and it has held up pretty well. I still use it occasionally to whip out a few rolls now and then. Obviously it is not industrial strength, but it is a serious step up from hand rolling, and better than any of the other low priced sorters I have seen. It is not as fast as my real counters or rollers but way faster than I can count by hand. It can also be overloaded if you try to cram too many coins in it at once. But overall it is a great machine for what it costs. It will occasionally hiccup and overshoot the coin tube. Also it will sometimes drop a dime in the penny tube or a penny in the nickel tube if you are trying to do large amounts of mixed coin. I always check my rolls on the scale after rolling so I don't worry about the occasional time it might not work perfect. I love that it has all the automatic batch stops to stop each time it reaches a full roll. It is a good handy little machine if you are not trying to do massive volume. It would be a good machine for the casual sorter, but probably not sufficient to handle the volume a guy with a Ryedale would generate. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 19:33:32
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I have and use a Royal Sovereign FS-4DA. HoardCopperByTheTon explained its benefits and its few minor flaws. Allows you to sort and count/roll at the same time. The cheap price is not a reflection of its performance. I say buy. You mentioned that you sell on ebay. If you don't like it just sell it. You will like it.
Deal
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Live free or die.
Plain and simple.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your council or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams |
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