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1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2010 : 11:34:57
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These crooks selected CMOs, the worst ones they could find. Then, they SOLD them to investors. Then, since they knew the CMOs were bad, they SOLD them short. They told the investors that they solidly backed their products and held them long. YOU LIE!! 
Once again, there is a flight to FIAT!! PMs DOWN BIG, Stocks DOWN BIG, Oil DOWN, Copper DOWN!! 
The $USD - It is UP... 
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 11:44:47
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Gotta make you feel outraged. Especially since they benefited from government bail outs.
Will this be part 2 of the downward spiral for U.S. stocks? I would think this would significantly weaken investor confidence. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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No82s
Penny Pincher Member
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 12:17:06
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| Buy on the dips!!!!!!!! |
The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is that the pessimist is better informed. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 12:42:02
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SEC Charges Goldman Sachs With Fraud On Subprime Mortgage
Posted Apr 16, 2010 10:59am EDT by Joe Weisenthal in Investing, Recession, Banking
Related: gs, xlf, skf, ^gspc, c, jpm, spy
Provided by The Business Insider, April 16, 2010:
This just broke on CNBC, and the NYT has a huge story about this already...
Goldman Sachs, which emerged relatively unscathed from the financial crisis, was accused of securities fraud in a civil suit filed Friday by the Securities and Exchange Commission, which claims the bank created and sold a mortgage investment that was secretly devised to fail.
The move marks the first time that regulators have taken action against a Wall Street deal that helped investors capitalize on the collapse of the housing market. Goldman itself profited by betting against the very mortgage investments that it sold to its customers.
Here's the SEC release...
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Washington, D.C., April 16, 2010 — The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged Goldman, Sachs & Co. and one of its vice presidents for defrauding investors by misstating and omitting key facts about a financial product tied to subprime mortgages as the U.S. housing market was beginning to falter.
The SEC alleges that Goldman Sachs structured and marketed a synthetic collateralized debt obligation (CDO) that hinged on the performance of subprime residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS). Goldman Sachs failed to disclose to investors vital information about the CDO, in particular the role that a major hedge fund played in the portfolio selection process and the fact that the hedge fund had taken a short position against the CDO.
"The product was new and complex but the deception and conflicts are old and simple," said Robert Khuzami, Director of the Division of Enforcement. "Goldman wrongly permitted a client that was betting against the mortgage market to heavily influence which mortgage securities to include in an investment portfolio, while telling other investors that the securities were selected by an independent, objective third party."
Kenneth Lench, Chief of the SEC's Structured and New Products Unit, added, "The SEC continues to investigate the practices of investment banks and others involved in the securitization of complex financial products tied to the U.S. housing market as it was beginning to show signs of distress."
The SEC alleges that one of the world's largest hedge funds, Paulson & Co., paid Goldman Sachs to structure a transaction in which Paulson & Co. could take short positions against mortgage securities chosen by Paulson & Co. based on a belief that the securities would experience credit events.
According to the SEC's complaint, filed in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, the marketing materials for the CDO known as ABACUS 2007-AC1 (ABACUS) all represented that the RMBS portfolio underlying the CDO was selected by ACA Management LLC (ACA), a third party with expertise in analyzing credit risk in RMBS. The SEC alleges that undisclosed in the marketing materials and unbeknownst to investors, the Paulson & Co. hedge fund, which was poised to benefit if the RMBS defaulted, played a significant role in selecting which RMBS should make up the portfolio.
The SEC's complaint alleges that after participating in the portfolio selection, Paulson & Co. effectively shorted the RMBS portfolio it helped select by entering into credit default swaps (CDS) with Goldman Sachs to buy protection on specific layers of the ABACUS capital structure. Given that financial short interest, Paulson & Co. had an economic incentive to select RMBS that it expected to experience credit events in the near future. Goldman Sachs did not disclose Paulson & Co.'s short position or its role in the collateral selection process in the term sheet, flip book, offering memorandum, or other marketing materials provided to investors.
The SEC alleges that Goldman Sachs Vice President Fabrice Tourre was principally responsible for ABACUS 2007-AC1. Tourre structured the transaction, prepared the marketing materials, and communicated directly with investors. Tourre allegedly knew of Paulson & Co.'s undisclosed short interest and role in the collateral selection process. In addition, he misled ACA into believing that Paulson & Co. invested approximately $200 million in the equity of ABACUS, indicating that Paulson & Co.'s interests in the collateral selection process were closely aligned with ACA's interests. In reality, however, their interests were sharply conflicting.
According to the SEC's complaint, the deal closed on April 26, 2007, and Paulson & Co. paid Goldman Sachs approximately $15 million for structuring and marketing ABACUS. By Oct. 24, 2007, 83 percent of the RMBS in the ABACUS portfolio had been downgraded and 17 percent were on negative watch. By Jan. 29, 2008, 99 percent of the portfolio had been downgraded.
Investors in the liabilities of ABACUS are alleged to have lost more than $1 billion.
The SEC's complaint charges Goldman Sachs and Tourre with violations of Section 17(a) of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 10(b) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and Exchange Act Rule 10b-5. The Commission seeks injunctive relief, disgorgement of profits, prejudgment interest, and financial penalties.
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Think positive. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 12:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved
Gotta make you feel outraged. Especially since they benefited from government bail outs.
Will this be part 2 of the downward spiral for U.S. stocks? I would think this would significantly weaken investor confidence.
I think the market was on the pavement to start heading south with or without the Goldman Sachs news. But this has got to be making the wall street mob at least a little nervous. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 12:58:16
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| G.S. stock is dropping like a rock. -12% last I looked. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.
Think positive. |
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Market Harmony
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1274 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 13:13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
G.S. stock is dropping like a rock. -12% last I looked.
I love shorting stocks... really, I like it better than being long |
goto the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 14:01:24
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Just read this article; isn't it weird how the one "analyst" says this will blow over since it happened a couple of years ago.
Couldn't we have said the same about ENRON when all their deceitful accounting practices hit the news?? |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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AGgressive Metal
Administrator
USA
1937 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 15:09:12
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| The SEC may just be throwing us (the people) a bone here. It is a civil suit, remember. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484 |
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oober
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1304 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 15:17:37
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IMO this is just a ploy to push financial reform thru. If this was really such a huge deal there would have been criminal charges.
Great day to have 20% of your portfolio in financials... NOT!!! |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 15:38:58
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| You don't think criminal charges could come down the road? |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 16:01:49
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Wait a second...I think it is time to call David Copperfield and roll out the rest of the mirrors and turn on the smoke!
The news today is nothing but a distraction. What is going on else where? Remember no one in the main stream media said a peep about GS involvement in the manipulation of gold prices…. Until now:
Ex-Goldman trader blows whistle on silver and gold manipulation by JPMorgan, HSBC - NYPOST.com
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Amazing the timing isn't it!
Oh, and also just in time for cap and trade…. Remember don’t let any crisis go to waste!
(Bloomberg) — Commodities are set for “violent price spikes” as constraints on investment in new supplies and emerging market demand lead to shortages, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
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You got to love the folks at GS! |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2010 : 16:06:05
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+1 Copper Catcher
Timing Is Everything! |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 16:57:16
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quote:
Originally posted by cptindy
+1 Copper Catcher
Timing Is Everything!
Yep, timing is everything. I unloaded all equities yesterday at the close. |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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silverhalide
Penny Sorter Member
92 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2010 : 04:42:56
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| It is not surprising at all Wall Street is nothing but a rigged game against you. |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2010 : 12:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher
Wait a second...I think it is time to call David Copperfield and roll out the rest of the mirrors and turn on the smoke!
The news today is nothing but a distraction. What is going on else where? Remember no one in the main stream media said a peep about GS involvement in the manipulation of gold prices…. Until now:
Ex-Goldman trader blows whistle on silver and gold manipulation by JPMorgan, HSBC - NYPOST.com
You must be logged in to see this link.
Amazing the timing isn't it!
Oh, and also just in time for cap and trade…. Remember don’t let any crisis go to waste!
(Bloomberg) — Commodities are set for “violent price spikes” as constraints on investment in new supplies and emerging market demand lead to shortages, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
You must be logged in to see this link.
You got to love the folks at GS!
Yep. I would also remind everyone that the banks (especially GS) run this country, they are the PTB, they make the policies for government to carry out. So why would Goldman Sachs order congress to charge themselves with fraud..?
Even if it wasn't a distraction, it is a red herring to make the sheeple think government is doing something about Wall Street corruption.
Either way, nothing will come of this.
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2010 : 12:57:51
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| +1 Bluegill |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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tunylune
New Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2010 : 21:11:33
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| It would be nice to know if the Fed pumped liquidity into the market yesterday from tarp funds to coincide with the strength the Dollar gained when the E.U. announced it's bailout of Greece. Also the announcement of S.E.C. against Goldman Sachs who is Gold heavy on paper would then help shore up the Dollar after they dumped the liquidity by causing concern in the PM markets assuring people would not flee to Gold. I am also wondering if there will be an up side to the failing Treasury Bond Markets as investors look for a safe place to park excess funds. The Fed will be looking to dump Dollars into the economy up until the Elections this Nov. in order to give the impression that we have turned the economic corner and all is well supporting their re-election efforts. It seems to be a well orchestrated manipulation of the markets while helping to give legitimacy for more Fed power and control over the markets. This screams of a Paulson move!!!! |
When the People fear the Government there is tyranny. When the Government fears the People there is Freedom. Thomas Jefferson |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 21:05:23
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| Amazingly how the same people (CNBC types) who said "save the financial system with tax payer money", then said "TBTF is bad policy", then come out and say "going after goldman sachs is dangerous and will destabilize the markets". I'm getting a bit sick of these guys wanting their cake and eating it too. If you want to change the culture of a world that is built on financial engineering and accounting misinformation you need to do something. Its like sacking the star player when you take over as coach or punching out the leader of the pack. Its all in Sun Tzu's "Art Of War" - LOL |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 14:26:23
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Daniel Wagner and Dan Strumpf, AP Business Writers, On Sunday April 25, 2010, 4:57 am EDT
NEW YORK (AP) -- As the U.S. housing turned downward in January 2007, a Goldman Sachs trader wrote in e-mails to a woman he apparently was courting that investments he had sold were "like Frankenstein turning against his own inventor."
"I'm trading a product which a month ago was worth $100 and today is only worth $93," wrote Fabrice Tourre, who was charged along with the bank in a civil complaint filed this month by the Securities and Exchange Commission. "That doesn't seem like a lot but when you take into account ... (the investments) are worth billions, well it adds up to a lot of money."
Tourre was talking about investment products like the one at the heart of a federal complaint against his firm. For Tourre, the investments were like an invention gone awry: He had started arranging them when the market was on the upswing. But he continued selling them after the market turned -- now with Goldman betting against them, in one case allegedly misleading investors about a deal's origin.
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. released that e-mail and 25 other internal documents Saturday in response to a Senate panel's release of messages in which Goldman executives boast about money they were making as the market imploded later in 2007.
When credit rating agencies downgraded many billions of dollars of mortgage-backed investments in October 2007, Goldman executive Donald Mullen was unabashedly pleased.
"Sounds like we will make serious money," Mullen wrote to Michael Swenson, another executive, in one of the e-mails released by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.
Goldman has argued vehemently that it did not profit from the mortgage meltdown.
Swenson and Tourre, along with Goldman CEO Lloyd Blankfein, will face a public grilling on Capitol Hill Tuesday from the subcommittee.
Also this week, the full Senate will take up a proposed overhaul of financial regulation intended to toughen oversight of Wall Street and make the financial system more transparent. Republican leaders oppose the measures.
And Goldman has been in the glare of a particularly unforgiving spotlight since the SEC filed civil fraud charges this month over the investments Tourre was selling and discussing in his e-mail.
The SEC alleges Goldman misled two investors -- IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG, a German bank, and ACA Management LLC, a U.S. bond insurance company -- who bought complex mortgage-related products crafted in part by Paulson & Co., a New York hedge fund led by billionaire John Paulson. Paulson was betting the market would collapse. The SEC says Goldman didn't tell the investors that Paulson was involved in choosing the investments or that he was betting they would fail.
Goldman has denied wrongdoing and says it will fight the charges. It has said it lost money on the particular deal of Tourre's that the SEC charges address.
The SEC complaint contains excerpts from the same Tourre e-mail chains that Goldman released in full Saturday. The firm's move puts on full display the personal life of the trader, who had boasted that the market would implode, leaving only him standing. And it does so days before he makes his public debut.
"Obviously, the content of the e-mails is highly embarrassing, but we've found no evidence of wrongdoing," Goldman spokesman Samuel Robinson said.
Goldman's relative strength during the financial crisis and the prominence of many former Goldman executives have made the firm a lightning-rod for public anger over Wall Street's greed and recklessness. Even before the SEC charges were filed, the long-secretive bank was fighting accusations that its bets helped trigger and fuel the financial crisis.
Goldman also has become a useful symbol for Democrats in the escalating debate over the financial overhaul. In fact, Republicans charge that Democrats in the Senate and on the SEC are using the public's anger toward Goldman to build support for their plan.
The subcommittee will brief reporters about the Goldman hearing on Monday, the same day the Senate will have its first test vote on the Obama administration's financial package. The panel is expected to release documents that will be covered Monday evening online and in Tuesday's papers next to reports on the overhaul vote.
The SEC's inspector general confirmed Friday that he will look into the timing of the charges and possible leaks by the commission.
The internal e-mails among Goldman executives were released by subcommittee chair Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich. In a statement, Levin called banks like Goldman "self-interested promoters of risky and complicated financial schemes that helped trigger the crisis."
In a statement Saturday, Goldman spokesman Lucas Van Praag said the bank lost $1.2 billion in the residential mortgage market during 2007 and 2008.
"As a firm, we obviously could not have been significantly net short since we lost money in a declining housing market," Van Praag said in a statement.
Van Praag is among the executives who wrote the e-mails the Senate committee released. He said the panel "cherry-picked" four threads out of 20 million pages Goldman provided.
"Of course we didn't dodge the mortgage mess," CEO Lloyd Blankfein wrote in a message dated Nov. 18, 2007. "We lost money, then made more than we lost because of shorts."
Short positions are bets that the market will go down. When the market went bust, people with short positions cleaned up.
Earlier in 2007, Goldman Chief Financial Officer David Viniar showed in one of the e-mail threads that the firm made more than $50 million in one day on bets the housing market would founder.
Viniar, also scheduled to testify Tuesday, summed up the contrast between Goldman's gains and the situation of investors who had not bet against the market:
"Tells you what might be happening to people who don't have the big short."
Wagner reported from Washington. AP Business Writer Stevenson Jacobs in New York contributed to this report. |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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Copper Catcher
Administrator
USA
2092 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 15:00:46
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The SEC suing Goldman Sachs is just a smokescreen : Bob Chapman
Found at: You must be logged in to see this link.
This hole story of he FCC and Goldman Sachs is not clear up to this point , it could be a preemptive attack by the FCC , they find out one billion dollar while they have stolen 100 billions of dollars they can send them for a year in jail in one of the country clubs , that's probably what they're up to cause all of them are part of the Illuminati says Bob Chapman, this great country has been taken over by criminals ...Goldman Sachs controls the Treasury Department why would the government go after it ???
Bob Chapman The International Forecaster :" Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. may have grounds to sue Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Barclays Plc after they demanded $1.2 billion in additional margin to assume trading positions auctioned by a Chicago exchange, bankruptcy examiner Anton Valukas said.
Goldman Sachs was the high bidder for Lehman’s equity derivatives at options and futures exchange CME Group Inc., and took $445 million of those assets at a private auction in September 2008, according to previously censored details of Valukas’s March 11 report. Barclays was the high bidder for Lehman’s energy derivatives and took $707 million in assets from CME.
DRW Trading was the highest bidder for Lehman’s foreign exchange, agricultural and interest-rate derivatives, Valukas said. The transfer of $2 billion in Lehman deposits for its proprietary trades at the CME cost the defunct investment bank $1.2 billion, Valukas said, adding that CME also may be sued.
“The examiner concludes that an argument can be made that the transfers at issue were fraudulent transfers,” Valukas said in the report, released in its unredacted form yesterday. Under bankruptcy law, Lehman may be able to undo the auction, he said.
Part of Valukas’s job was to explore Lehman’s grounds for suing companies that contributed to, or benefitted unfairly from, the demise of the investment bank and its affiliates including the brokerage Lehman Brothers Inc., and to say which kinds of lawsuits are most likely to succeed and what the possible defenses are."
extract from the International Forcaster
Bob Chapman : Get your cash out of the Banks and The Stock Market - we will have Bank Holiday and the Stock market will crash by the end of this year
Mr. Chapman also known as The International Forecaster is a 74 years old. He was born in Boston, MA and attended Northeastern University majoring in business management. He spent three years in the U. S. Army Counterintelligence, mostly in Europe. He speaks German and French and is conversant in Spanish. He lived in Europe for six years, off and on, three years in Africa, a year in Canada and a year in the Bahamas.
Mr. Chapman became a stockbroker in 1960 and retired in 1988. For 18 of those years he owned his own brokerage firm. He was probably the largest gold and silver stockbroker in the world during that period. When he retired he had over 6,000 clients.
Bob Chapman : you got to remove these people from the government
Starting in 1967 Mr. Chapman began writing articles on business, finance, economics and politics having been printed and reprinted over the years in over 200 publications. He owned and wrote the Gary Allen Report, which had 30,000 subscribers. He currently is owner and editor of The International Forecaster, a compendium of information on business, finance, economics and social and political issues worldwide, which reaches 10,000 investors and brokers monthly directly, and parts of his publication are picked up by 60 different websites weekly exposing his ideas to over 10 million investors a week.
In June of 1991, at the request of business associates, and due to retirement boredom, he began writing the International Forecaster.
Bob Chapman : do not expect the government to guarantee your bank account , it is bankrupt |
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mascallw119
New Member
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 22:48:18
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| It is always very unfortunate to see things like this happen and people lose their money to these type of investments. But this is nothing new in that over and over again some people continue to blind themselves to the old saying that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then guess what? It's a duck. A lot of derivatives in securities were born out of investors GREED and could not exist if investors were not willing to buy into them. What these securities companies are doing is awful but as investors, we have a choice and responsibility as well. |
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Goldman Sachs charged with fraud by SEC
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