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 So-called "prepper" suggests using rags, not TP
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Nickelless
Administrator


USA
5580 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2010 :  21:10:42  Show Profile Send Nickelless a Private Message
Gives a whole new meaning to TSHTF!

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quote:
Yesterday I came across an “emergency preparedness blog” that was alarmingly incorrect. It was a basic topic, but it was addressed in a very misguided manner. The author wrote about what she plans to use in an emergency for her toilet hygiene—rags instead of toilet paper. So as not to risk educating anyone incorrectly, rather than providing a link to the article I will instead provide a few summations of the article which she posted on this national “preppers” site.

First of all, she was a big advocate of NOT using toilet paper during an occasion in which you had to rely on an outhouse, a hole in the ground, or some other such scenario. She labeled such a premise as useless, expensive, and unrealistic.  Instead she offered up a suggestion of using old rags and then storing the “used rages” in a lidded bucket filled with borax, bleach, water and laundry detergent.  She believes that such an option is “more eco-friendly” than toilet paper is.

While I read the article, I could sense the enthusiasm that this person had for sharing her knowledge with the rest of the world. I believe she was also trying to make the alternative solution as easy as possible for others. I certainly don’t believe that she was attempting to mislead anyone. However, I physically cringed while I was reading it, realizing that she was setting up herself and anyone else who bought into her instructions, for a major sanitation problem—even a deadly one.

To understand why planning on using a rag as opposed to TP or another like product, I think I should first point out a few things about feces and urine that some folks may not realize. First of all, sewer treatment employees receive HAZARD PAY because of the danger of their work. In fact, sewer treatment employees receive more “disaster prevention training” annually than police officers do to improve their firearm skills.  In other words, working with urine and feces is not a task to be taken lightly. The hazard in working with sewage isn’t just about the chemicals used to treat the sewers, but it’s also about working with the unavoidable—the waste itself.

Urine contains compounded amounts of toxins, nitrogen, nitrates, and ammonia. As such, it is NOT recommended that it is simply thrown out somewhere uncontained or unprotected.  For those of you who are considering having two containers for solid and liquid waste in a worst case scenario, I beg you to rethink that plan. Solid matter actually needs the liquid to help it break down. Plus, it’s simply not realistic from a physiological standpoint to perfectly separate the two while someone is heeding a call from Mother Nature.  Separating the two compounds will only create more problems which I don’t have room to address in this post.

As urine and feces sit—especially in a heated environment—it develops deadly pathogens, dangerous combinations of microbes, bacteria, and viruses—including the well-known e-coli.  This compound attracts flies which feed on it and then spread it from one location to another. The point being that handling such a compound in any way is not a wise decision.  Staying away from it and disposing of it in all cases is critical.

Let’s also understand that a scenario that’s accompanied by the symptom of limited access toilet comforts that we’re presently used to is indicative of a serious scenario. Think about what would have to take place in order for a rationing of toilet paper to take place. (Other than the toilet paper shortage caused in 1973 by Johnny Carson jokingly telling his audience that there was a TP shortage. As a result, he actually CAUSED a shortage because millions of people cleaned off the shelves of TP that night. *grin*) Perhaps a natural disaster, a financial collapse, or act of war would cause such consequences.  Any of these scenarios would mean that we could no longer take our present state of sanitation for granted. 

One of most important aspects of establishing a society is to provide a community with reliable sanitation solutions. The reason is because poor sanitation can literally kill an entire community within a 50 meter radius in as little as 30 days. Bacteria, disease, and viruses are no respecter of persons, borders, or bank accounts.  Thus preventing the spread of such must be diligently practiced at the root of its origins. If sanitation is not practiced with the utmost of our capabilities during everyday or dire circumstances, then disease and death will speedily run rampant.  Remember disease is not easily curtailed to a specific environment. Disease is no respecter of persons, boundaries, or social positions Keep in mind that due to our easy methods of travel, disease can spread faster than it ever has in history.  That’s a significant statement considering that the Spanish Flu spread to over one-third of the earth in a matter of only three months—this prior to the availability of speedy international travel.

Preparing for alternative sanitation solutions can be practical, comfortable, and realistic.  The use of toilet paper should not be viewed as a luxury that can be easily dismissed.  While we should be aware of alternative options such as corn husks, phone book pages, or newspapers, it’s important that we recognize the need to provide us with a safe distance, minimal exposure, and safe disposal of our hazardous waste. Seaweed is also a good alternative as it’s got healing properties with it as well. The fact of the matter is ALL of these aforementioned alternative options are much safer options for you versus you planning on using rags and cleaning them as you go.

To be blunt, planning on using cloth or rags is not an ideal “plan B.” Just by nature of the rag method you are more prone to come into contact with the fecal matter. The longer it “hangs around,” being stored in buckets, being washed, etc, the more likely that contact is.  Additionally, the rag method requires storage of the fecal covered rags until you wash them. The storage—especially with any heat involved, will compound the hazardous toxins as the bucket of used rags sit. Something else I think we underestimate is that smells, especially unpleasant ones, strongly affect our morale. Unpleasant smells are not simply an affront on the senses. They are also an inhalation of dangerous microbes and airborne bacteria. If you’re storing the used rags, the smell lingers throughout your entire living environment. Instead it should be burned or broken down with something like Chemisan. It would definitely stink (excuse the pun) if you couldn’t enjoy the smells of sautéed garlic and onion because the wafting aroma of the outhouse overpowered it.

Lastly, in order to use rags for this particular hygiene care, most believe they need to use heavy chemicals such as borax or chlorine—neither of which are eco-friendly.  Where can you safely dispose of those chemicals?? If you absolutely HAVE to use rags, consider instead using essential oils to clean the rags with such as lavender, Thieves, and tea tree oil.  Exposing yourself to potential contact with fecal matter is such a bad idea, that even the reusable toilet wipe companies don’t recommend their product for use for anything else except straight urine. Additionally, it requires much more physical energy and water to take care of than does TP. You can never underestimate the importance of conserving physical energy and maintaining as much “normalcy” as possible during a crisis scenario.

On the other side of the debate, toilet paper can easily be broken down or safely disposed of.  It can easily be burned or buried. My favorite method of breaking down fecal matter and TP is the use of Chemisan. Chemisan eliminates a great deal of the smell, deadly pathogens and breaks it down completely in as little as two weeks leaving behind the equivalent of a soil.

Contrary to some opinions, toilet paper does not have to be expensive.  For over a year now, thanks to coupons, I have put my mandatory price point on toilet paper at 25 cents a roll.  I don’t pay any more than that, ever.  But when I get it at that price, I do purchase as much as my budget that week will permit me.  I also use that same strategy on anything else I purchase and bring into my home. I set a price point and stick to it. This means that I don’t have to choose BETWEEN having wheat or toilet paper. I get to have what I and my loved ones need for every anticipated event. Planning well everyday means that you don’t have to choose between one vital necessity and another. Knowing you have all of the bases covered means more mental strength for you to deal with the other aspects of a survival scenario which may test you.

Also as an alternative view of the blog I’m referencing, toilet paper is a multi-purpose product. It’s often used by cost conscious individuals in lieu of facial tissue. It’s also used by some as a source of cooking fuel (along with isopropyl alcohol)—a waste to me considering so many other cooking alternatives, but to each his own. And hey, TP has even been used by the US. Military as camouflage during the Gulf War!

The comfort factor of toilet paper should not be underestimated either.  Promoting familiarity during a crisis scenario is as important as your medical supplies. This is why a survey two years ago revealed that over half of all of the respondents said that they would choose food first, then water, and then toilet paper as their supplies on a deserted island. In other words, it’s more important to peoples psyche and comfort than perhaps this author realized. I suspect more people didn’t mention toilet paper simply because it was off their radar. Perhaps a gorgeous companion and their favorite rock band made the list instead. When there is any kind of an “ick” factor involved, it’s much harder to expect persons to change their habits, even in a survival scenario. Trying to do so will inevitably bring about stress. If you’re using moss and leaves right now everyday, then you won’t have any problem with those items in the future—unless you don’t stock up. Otherwise, having what you’re familiar with for such an inevitable part of life is critical to your mental health.

Bottom line, in the event of true emergency scenario, having ample toilet paper will NOT be the least of your concerns. It falls in line with the Physical and Medical aspects of preparedness which puts it in the position of priority number 3 and 4 out of the Ten Areas of Preparedness.  So, watch for the sales, know how much your family uses in a week, and plan accordingly.




Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively

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Edited by - Nickelless on 03/03/2010 21:41:51

Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member



2906 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2010 :  21:37:30  Show Profile Send Kurr a Private Message
Is that why they went to disposable and outlawed cloth (re-usable rag) diapers?

Bleach can be electrolytically from salt water. Also I think the author implies that it would take a lot of it, and I have to admit, I do not know what ratio would provide adequate protection, but I do know it takes but drops to do a gallon of water for drinking.

Also He suggests using lavender and other "essential oils" to clean the rags, and this is unfamiliar and I am not sure I would trust that in this application.

Not saying he is dead wrong, but it is beyond anything I have heard on that.



The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?

KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
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jadedragon
Administrator



Canada
3788 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  00:02:35  Show Profile Send jadedragon a Private Message
I don't even need to read the whole article to know how messed up this is. Never even heard of any culture doing this.

In the Middle East, Morocco, Malaysia, and China I've often simply followed local custom and used a bucket of water with a scoop to wash up. You scoop up water and pour to wash yourself. All the water in the bucket stays clean. A little soup afterward and it is all good. Sometimes the better equipped places have a nice little hose to use. Next bathroom I build gets the hose included because it works better than TP.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
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Nickelless
Administrator



USA
5580 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  00:18:42  Show Profile Send Nickelless a Private Message
Well, the article at the link above was just quoting the nutjob, not advocating what the nutjob was saying. The article itself is pretty good.


Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively

---------------

Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html

Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp
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billo
Penny Collector Member



293 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  00:47:53  Show Profile Send billo a Private Message
"All the water in the bucket stays clean." ... Perhaps, if there's absolutely no droplet splash back to the dipper! I've seen these setups overseas and I'd like to see a bacteria count on some of the rooms. (I think airplane bathrooms are the worst though, with the trap-door trash containers that are impossible not to touch.) Then what if water becomes scarce and you'd rather drink it? TP is still a good resource.

That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.

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Nickelless
Administrator



USA
5580 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  00:57:37  Show Profile Send Nickelless a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by billo

TP is still a good resource.

I'd go way, way beyond that and echo what the OP said on the blog link above--NOT having toilet paper is a HUGE public health problem. And in a SHTF (no pun intended) situation, the last thing you need is an escalating public health problem.


Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively

---------------

Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html

Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp
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AGCoinHunter
Penny Hoarding Member



USA
685 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  13:20:12  Show Profile Send AGCoinHunter a Private Message
Hose is the way to go. When I was in the middle east they have holes in the ground they called a Turkish toilet. Many places had the conventional toilet we are all accustomed to but rarely there was ever any tp. On one excursion from my westernized hotel, I found myself debating which one to use. With no TP the choice was fairly clear. All that was available was a short hose next to this hole in the ground. Will say, it would have been nice to have a towel to dry off with but it did the deed. Lesson learned, always carry TP with you (strange for most men) but in a pinch a hose works well.



"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
-Thomas Jefferson

"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand
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billo
Penny Collector Member



293 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  18:00:46  Show Profile Send billo a Private Message
"NOT having toilet paper is a HUGE public health problem."

Seconded. No rags and hoses for me.

That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.

http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/
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billo
Penny Collector Member



293 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  18:09:48  Show Profile Send billo a Private Message
Also...plastic gloves, hand sanitizer.

Beyond the TP, how about where to put the output itself if sewer system is down? Dig latrine/outhouse? Have to avoid contaminating groundwater too if possible.

If you can't go outside (chem/nuke/bio/superflu/violence) then maybe the old civil defense nuke shelter way with bucket and trash bags? Not going to smell tolerable though, might need one of those products to spray on it.

That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.

http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/
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jadedragon
Administrator



Canada
3788 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  18:58:38  Show Profile Send jadedragon a Private Message
If water is scarce you could use gray water or creek water. I'm not saying you should drink the wash water, but it is a pretty clean setup.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog
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