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n/a
deleted
1 Posts |
 Posted - 10/26/2007 : 08:56:28
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I am trying to put together a list of US refiners who melt silver coins into bullion, by type (90% vs war nickels) and average cost as a % of bullion.
Anyone who has knowledge of such please let me know, even if you're unsure, I will follow up with the companies.
When finished I will make the list available to all who wish it.
Thx
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NiBullionCu
Penny Pincher Member
USA
168 Posts |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2007 : 10:58:43
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Sell the silver coins and buy bullion. If you try and use a refiner to do this you risk getting ripped off. Refiners are notorius for skimming. NIBUullionCu listed one the best dealers that there is...You must be logged in to see this link.
IMHO |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2007 : 17:43:21
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If you have very large quantities, Midwest Refineries is fantastic.
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 04:49:58
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This is going to sound really stupid, but since I've never bought bullion before...
How easy is it for somebody to counterfeit bullion? How do I know that what I'm being sold via eBay is the real thing (other than sellers' feedback scores)? It looks like there's a 500 oz. minimum for silver bullion on the Tulving website, so unless I come into some major cash, I'll have to buy from eBay for the time being... |
Edited by - Nickelless on 10/27/2007 04:53:37 |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 13:01:01
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Personally, I would very wary about any big bullion purchases on E-Bay. I know from experience that there have been some very bad operators on E-Bay that have stolen tens of thousands of dollars from people. They get themselves a good reputation at first and then they have a big sale and disappear into the night. The crooks invest 6+ months of doing real sales and getting good feedback to execute a $10,000+ sting...
As for counterfeit bullion, I've never seen any but I am sure it is out there. I would think a set of calipers and digital jewelry would give you 99.9% confirmation that you have the real thing. Just compare your finding with the calipers and scale to the specifications for the bullion. I would think making a cheap fake is pretty easy, but making a fake with the exact dimensions and weight of the real thing would be very, very hard.
I use an acid test kit on scrap jewelry, but you would not want to do that to your bullion. By the way I've plenty of fakes when it comes to jewelry. Testing any jewelry that you buy off of E-Bay is an absolute must.
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2007 : 15:00:38
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quote:
Originally posted by fiatboy
If you have very large quantities, Midwest Refineries is fantastic.
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson
I never did business with them but I hear a lot of good things about them. They will not smelt copper or nickel coinage for you even if it is Canadian.
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Fanaticism is doubling one's efforts, yet forgetting one's purpose.
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Realcent.forumco.com disclosure please read
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of You must be logged in to see this link. are for entertainment purpose only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com to provide investment, medical, legal or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 15:22:42
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I did a business idea trial run using Midwest Refineries. I still have a folder with the info in it. I won't get into the details of the business, but suffice it to say that I sent 3+ troy ounces of scrap gold of various Karats to Midwest Refineries. Before sending it, I personally acid tested and weighed every piece.
The paid me for 1.698 Troy ounces of gold out of the 1.89 Troy ounces that I should have got by my calculations. So they skimmed or lost 10% of what I sent them. Unfortunatly, 10% was the profit margin on the business I was testing so the business idea went into hibernation.
This gold lost during refining "scam" is standard in the precious metal refining business. So Midwest advertises about the lowest fees on refining gold at 6%, but in the real cost is closer to 16%. As far as I know this may be about the best you can expect, but I have not tried anybody else.
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 17:21:50
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How advisable would it be for me to consider buying bullion from a local jeweler or coin dealer instead of eBay? I live in a fairly small-ish town (population 60,000) and really don't want anyone knowing that I'm stocking up on PM. I'd guess that the jewelers and coin dealers would be protective of their clients' identities, but maybe I'm being overly paranoid. Or would any of you recommend that I buy from dealers from another city? There are three other cities within a 75-mile radius as large or larger than my hometown where I could theoretically road-trip to buy bullion. Or would it raise eyebrows with the out-of-town establishments that I come there to buy PM? Or would they tend not to care where I'm from as long as I'm buying from them? Any advice on making in-person purchases?
ADDITIONAL COMMENT: I was just looking at the Tulving site and it looks like there's a 500-oz. minimum for bullion. That's out of my price range at this point. Any suggestions where I should start? |
Edited by - Nickelless on 10/27/2007 17:48:43 |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
4841 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 17:41:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
How advisable would it be for me to consider buying bullion from a local jeweler or coin dealer instead of eBay? I live in a fairly small-ish town (population 60,000) and really don't want anyone knowing that I'm stocking up on PM. I'd guess that the jewelers and coin dealers would be protective of their clients' identities, but maybe I'm being overly paranoid. Or would any of you recommend that I buy from dealers from another city? There are three other cities within a 75-mile radius as large or larger than my hometown where I could theoretically road-trip to buy bullion. Or would it raise eyebrows with the out-of-town establishments that I come there to buy PM? Or would they tend not to care where I'm from as long as I'm buying from them? Any advice on making in-person purchases?
All the coin/bullion dealers I buy from never asked me my name much less address. I only pay in cash and never by check or credit card. Unless you are buying or selling a huge lot at one place no one should ever take note of you.
If you are going to be paranoid, be paranoid that someone is not lurking outside when you buy and try to mug you.
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Fanaticism is doubling one's efforts, yet forgetting one's purpose.
*********************
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure please read
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of You must be logged in to see this link. are for entertainment purpose only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com to provide investment, medical, legal or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 18:06:44
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Nickelless:
I suggest buying in person with cash. If they ask for your name, go elsewhere.
Personally, I've never had a problem doing business this way.
You're right to be a little paranoid, and don't forget to be mindful of what you put in your garbage, or who is nearby when you enter and leave your house.
Good luck and enjoy your purchase! 
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 18:12:46
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quote:
did a business idea trial run using Midwest Refineries. I still have a folder with the info in it. I won't get into the details of the business, but suffice it to say that I sent 3+ troy ounces of scrap gold of various Karats to Midwest Refineries. Before sending it, I personally acid tested and weighed every piece.
The paid me for 1.698 Troy ounces of gold out of the 1.89 Troy ounces that I should have got by my calculations. So they skimmed or lost 10% of what I sent them. Unfortunatly, 10% was the profit margin on the business I was testing so the business idea went into hibernation.
This gold lost during refining "scam" is standard in the precious metal refining business. So Midwest advertises about the lowest fees on refining gold at 6%, but in the real cost is closer to 16%. As far as I know this may be about the best you can expect, but I have not tried anybody else.
That is the first really negative feedback I've heard about them, but I'm very glad you piped up about your experiences. Let's keep 'em honest, I say!
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2007 : 14:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Nickelless
ADDITIONAL COMMENT: I was just looking at the Tulving site and it looks like there's a 500-oz. minimum for bullion. That's out of my price range at this point. Any suggestions where I should start?
If you have not already, checkout You must be logged in to see this link. I believe they sell in small quantities and they are reliable. If nothing else, you can use their prices as a reference for small purchases made elsewhere (locally?). |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 00:34:43
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I don't know exactly what you have, but You must be logged in to see this link. usually has competitive prices. Even though I've been banned from apmex, they're an upstanding company that I highly recommend.
Do you want to have your silver refined and then returned to you in a certain form, i.e., ingots, rounds, etc., or are you simply wanting to sell?
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 03:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by fiatboy
Even though I've been banned from apmex, they're an upstanding company that I highly recommend.
What got you banned??? Were you using steroids to pump up silver prices?  |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 11:49:53
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quote:
What got you banned??? Were you using steroids to pump up silver prices?
I don't want to get into the details of the matter, but essentially, I beat them at their own game. They were getting lazy on some things, I took advantage of the situation, and reaped the reward. They didn't like the spread I pulled on them. Nothing illegal, just some easy silver and a big ethical gray area. My transactions were a little shady, but still within their terms of service. Believe me when I say, apmex does not mess around when they feel they've been screwed over!
Regardless, I'd recommend them to anyone. Competitive prices, safe, secure. Best on the net, no doubt.
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3890 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 19:14:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
All the coin/bullion dealers I buy from never asked me my name much less address. I only pay in cash and never by check or credit card. Unless you are buying or selling a huge lot at one place no one should ever take note of you.
If you are going to be paranoid, be paranoid that someone is not lurking outside when you buy and try to mug you.
****************
Fanaticism is doubling one's efforts, yet forgetting one's purpose.
*********************
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure please read
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of You must be logged in to see this link. are for entertainment purpose only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com to provide investment, medical, legal or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so.
In all seriousness. I'm not sure where you are from or the weapons laws in your area, but where I live it is legal to carry a concealed weapon, and I strongly encourage anyone who is buying or selling PM's in person to always be armed. Don't think for a minute that there aren't people that scope out customers of those establishments. I live in a "good" part of town and my PM dealer is in the same area. You get buzzed in and the door locks behind you. I am always armed. So are the bad guys, don't forget that. Moral: Always be aware of your surroundings, not just the % over/under spot you are paying/receiving. Your identity should never come into play.
Deal
I'm so sick over pennies....I frequently trade a dime or two for the whole "take-a-penny" container if sufficient coppers exist. That will get you some odd looks. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 11:55:40
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quote:
If you are going to be paranoid, be paranoid that someone is not lurking outside when you buy and try to mug you.
I dress very casually--I can even wear jeans and a t-shirt to work--so it's not a problem for me to not stand out in a crowd. I figure nobody will expect someone dressed like that to have big bucks on him. I usually carry a $20 bill in my wallet in case I get robbed, but otherwise only carry a debit card.
But beyond that, here's a suggestion I'll throw out for everyone: Get a money belt. This didn't even cross my mind until I was at Walmart a couple days ago browsing for belts because I left the one I had at the laundromat. I plan to only buy a few ounces of silver a week at this point due to money constraints, but those few ounces and any other cash could be easily carried around in a money belt, and if I'm dressed in jeans and a T-shirt, $20 in my wallet just in case, T-shirt untucked and any other cash or PM hidden in my belt, who would suspect? |
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Coin smelting companies . . .
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