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toomuchcopper
Penny Collector Member
USA
406 Posts |
 Posted - 12/26/2009 : 16:29:30
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with much thought I have come up with something for everyone to think about.
hypothetically...... you have two people selling copper pennies, one is selling at 1.5 times face and one is selling at 2 times face. now at first glance you may think that the 2x (guy selling two times face) is making twice as much as 1.5x (guy selling at 1.5 times face). but not really.
lets say that 1.5x sells a $100 face lot for a gross profit of $50, now subtract expenses (gas, electricity, packing supplies, etc.) of $30, so he has a net profit of $20. Now 2x sells the same $100 face lot for $200 for a gross profit of $100 subtract the same expenses of $30 and his profit is $70...so 1.5x has to sell 3.5 times as many $100 face lots as 2x to make the same money. wow......now even further you need to realize that 1.5x spent three times as much time and more wear and tear on his euipment than 2x guy. so it may be harder to sell a lot at two times face, but you dont need to sell as many.......makes you think.
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visit www.crazycoinguy.com
for information on how to sort, what to sort, and sorting equipment. We also sell copper pennies in bulk, and other coins. |
Edited by - toomuchcopper on 12/26/2009 16:37:35 |
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 16:48:07
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| That makes perfect cents. (sense) I think that most of us are waiting for the price to go higher as we have seen that copper pennies were selling for 1.3 are now selling at 1.5 and higher If we wait the percent of return will beat almost anything else on the market now. |
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cwgii
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
924 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 17:04:45
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| i wish... i cannot sell at 125 for 95. |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 17:52:33
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| But how long does that person who is selling at 2x holding on to his inventory? I think a small profit and a quick turn around is better than sitting on them for a long time. If you keep getting new stock of pennies to sort (you bought from your profits), you are also finding wheats, indian heads, and dimes. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 18:05:45
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it depends on how many you sort at one time. i have 3 Ryedales. Get pennies loose, return loose, and i pickup the same day i dump. I can pickup $1500.00 , sort in less than 3 hours and have $375 in coppers. When i sell at 1.5 i still make $187 for that days work.
picking up, sorting, and dumping takes 6 hours max. so 187/6 is 31 per hour.
i also use the profits to buy more pennies,or silver,or gold. your business, and bank account grows by buying and selling, not buying and holding. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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Edited by - slickeast on 12/26/2009 18:06:53 |
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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2212 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 18:15:57
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| That will would Slickeast if you have that amount to go through,but if you get a bag every week or two I look upon it as an investment. I will hold until the return is greater. I don't need the turnover to buy more coins. It's get them and hold mind-set. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 21:23:09
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I'm sure slick would be happy to sell at 2x.. but that is not the market right now. I am not as efficient as slick since I cannot get coin loose in bags.. but with 4 Ryedales, 3 automatic rolling machines, and 7 high speed counters all paid for when copper was selling at 2.25x.. I can be competitive.
Maybe someone that thinks they can sell at 2x should engage in arbitrage and buy up all that is available at 1.5x and resell it at 2x. Instant $50 profit per $100 face with no effort and no wear and tear on the equipment. Sometimes it is easier to purchase it than to produce it yourself if you do not have the equipment or availability of raw material.
Another way to look at it if you just want to consider profit is to consider absolute dollars against percentages. If slick cycles his capital 10 times at that thinner margin he has put a lot more money in his pocket. Of course he may increase his margins by achieving efficiencies through being a volume producer. If you make 70% profit, but only do 1 deal, and it takes you 6 months to do it, how much have you really put in your pocket?
The solution.. whether you sell as fast as you can produce, or hold everything you produce for a higher price.. or somewhere in betweeen.. is the same.. "Just sort more!" 
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If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 23:31:01
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| Pretty impessive Slick! Never realized you were that Big into it. Ever think of hiring a kid for $5-10 an hr to help you and do even greater numbers or is that the most raw you can get at a time? |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 01:12:32
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| I can get more, but i limit myself due time/work schedule. Plus i am about to do some home repairs, so funds will have to go to that. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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toomuchcopper
Penny Collector Member
USA
406 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 11:09:38
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| wow...$1500/day you are the man, thats awesome....I guess everyones situation is all relative to there available time and investment. Do the banks that you buy from and dump at know what you are doing with all these coins? Do you have some sort of connections there. I have not been able to find anyone receptive to more than 4 boxes to a transaction. even when ordering ahead, everyone wants to know "what are you going to do with all those pennies" I have told a few and as soon as i do, shortly after I am cut off for one excuse or another. so I dont tell them know I just smile and say "its complicated" so far that has worked. |
visit www.crazycoinguy.com
for information on how to sort, what to sort, and sorting equipment. We also sell copper pennies in bulk, and other coins. |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 12:42:05
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The CU's that I get the bags from get their armored car service on Tuesday morning, so I go on Mondays. That way I get a whole weeks worth of pennies. I have 2 dump banks that I use regularly. They have told me more than once that they don't care how many I bring in, as long as I am willing to wait for them to change the bags. I also have one bank that will let me return in bags. They also supply the bags. I have just found out she can order bags too. I might have to let that be a source bank instead of a dump bank. I am already ordering $1000 bags of halves there.
I have several that will order boxes. One that will order large amounts, (over $500), but I hate opening all those rolls.
I don't do $1500 a day, everyday. Just $1500 a week, but all in one day (usually). I have found that this a manageable amount to do without sacrificing too much of my time. I still have to work and keep up a house.
Now that I have found another bank with a coin machine in the lobby, I might be getting another bank account. They have a cummins jet sort machine. I don't know how fast they are. The DeLaRue machines are 2500/cpm.
As far as connections, not really. I use the bank my parents have used for years and everyone knows that I am their son. I have also showered them with plenty of CHOCOLATE over the years. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 09:29:23
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I think you should sell at the price you feel happy with selling at.
Please note i'll happily sell lower than your asking price. |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 23:28:14
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| I'd be happy selling at 12.6 times face.. there just aren't any buyers at that price level. |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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JP_007
Penny Sorter Member
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 07:45:46
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| I have never had to ship cents so I am not sure how much it costs, but for someone that would be the buyer wouldn't the price of 1.5x face plus shipping be very close to paying 2x face shipped? Just a thought. Happy New Year everyone! |
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slickeast
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2533 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 07:51:14
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1.5X shipped is low. I only sold because it was Christmas and i stayed out of work for 12 weeks on FMLA. Buying and selling is good IF you have plenty of sources for loose coin and a quick dumping method. If I had more free time, i would sort more.
I think 2X is the sweet spot to make it more worth the effort to sell. If you can, buy and hold.
The main problem I have is there is only 8 banks where I live. 8 total bank buildings. So i have to drive 25 miles to get the big loose pickups and dump. So to make the trip worth it, I buy big and dump big on the same trip. |
You don't have to be the BEST you just have to be.......SLICK
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1507 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 15:02:26
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quote:
Originally posted by JP_007
I have never had to ship cents so I am not sure how much it costs, but for someone that would be the buyer wouldn't the price of 1.5x face plus shipping be very close to paying 2x face shipped? Just a thought. Happy New Year everyone!
I would say they aren't really that close, but it all depends on the individual.
Shipping is $10, so there's a $30 dollar difference in your figure above. Personally i'd say gaining or losing that amount does add up over time. |
Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 15:06:09
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| I think that if Realcent members collectively stopped selling at these low amounts that it would at least push the price up to 1.7...I'm sure if at least 10 big players started advertising at 2x the prices would shoot up fast. |
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coppernicus
Penny Collector Member
USA
383 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 15:11:40
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| This is definitely a double edged sword. If there was a big market that was paying more for the copper pennies then they would disappear a lot faster. Without getting big profits, it really makes it uncertain as to whether it is worth it. I guess that is what "investing" is. If it was guranteed then everyone would do it, so you just have to hope that you are out ahead of the pack and identify something of value and accumulate it before everyone else does. |
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Gr33nday43
New Member
Uzbekistan
10 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 15:14:22
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| I think that this website is the reason why copper pennies are so low in price. With everyone selling at around 1.5x, customers would rather buy at the lower prices here instead of paying more on say, eBay or some other website. |
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Numis Pam
Penny Sorter Member
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 06:18:46
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| Wow, awesome food for thought in this thread. Thanks for the great (and FREE) education! |
http://www.extrabux.com/r/4c6f54ba32 1% -27% cash back on purchases. Plus Refer Friends and Get $5 to Spend at Ebay or any of hundreds of participating online stores. |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
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smalltimeopn
Penny Sorter Member
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 16:46:16
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The game changer will be when the fed does away with the penny.
Hoard now and hold! |
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twentybux
Penny Pincher Member
174 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 23:11:15
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| I'll toast to that! |
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misteroman
Administrator
USA
2565 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 00:37:43
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| <-----holding here |
Buying CU cents!!!! Paying 1.2 unlimited amounts wanted. Can pick up if near Ohio area. |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 13:06:34
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If you have 1 ryedale and sort $400 and get 25% copper return. Assuming you have only a few jams thats 2.5 hrs worth of sorting time. Assuming your bank is close and you don't have to wait you have 10 mins pick up time and when returning them using a 4000/min coin counter you have 8 mins counting and 7 mins of waiting for them to change bags. Add in 15 mins worth of driving. Add in 10 mins worth of packaging. Add in $2 worth of tape and $11 to ship. Add 10 mins round trip to the post office.
Machine costs. Ryedale is good for at least 5 million coins. 40000/5000000 = .008% of the machine use. .008 X $500 (cost of new machine) =$4
Sell for 1.3 times shipped.
Sold $130
-$100 FV
=$30
-$2 tape
=$28
-$11 shipping
=$17
-$4 machine costs
=$13
Not factoring in the cost of electricity or the cost to use your car/truck/van or anything else.....
Profit of $13 for 3.5 hrs of work. You made $3.71 an hr and had a profit margin of 3.25% on your investment of $400.
Yes, this will go up if you sort more than $100 at once but unless your sorting a lot and cutting down on your driving timw its really not gonna be that profitable to sell for 1.3x shipped.
This is why I don't get how or why people sell for so little...
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Copper Penny Investing
www.portlandmint.com |
Edited by - highroller4321 on 08/02/2010 13:09:40 |
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Fatboy
Penny Sorter Member
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2010 : 07:02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by highroller4321
If you have 1 ryedale and sort $400 and get 25% copper return. Assuming you have only a few jams thats 2.5 hrs worth of sorting time. Assuming your bank is close and you don't have to wait you have 10 mins pick up time and when returning them using a 4000/min coin counter you have 8 mins counting and 7 mins of waiting for them to change bags. Add in 15 mins worth of driving. Add in 10 mins worth of packaging. Add in $2 worth of tape and $11 to ship. Add 10 mins round trip to the post office.
Machine costs. Ryedale is good for at least 5 million coins. 40000/5000000 = .008% of the machine use. .008 X $500 (cost of new machine) =$4
Sell for 1.3 times shipped.
Sold $130
-$100 FV
=$30
-$2 tape
=$28
-$11 shipping
=$17
-$4 machine costs
=$13
Not factoring in the cost of electricity or the cost to use your car/truck/van or anything else.....
Profit of $13 for 3.5 hrs of work. You made $3.71 an hr and had a profit margin of 3.25% on your investment of $400.
Yes, this will go up if you sort more than $100 at once but unless your sorting a lot and cutting down on your driving timw its really not gonna be that profitable to sell for 1.3x shipped.
This is why I don't get how or why people sell for so little...
Using your numbers, if you could sell local and get rid of the shipping charges, you might get up close to $7.00/hr! :)
OR if you did it on a slightly larger scale ............... |
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selling and profit number crunching
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