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keys
Penny Collector Member
383 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2009 : 18:55:07
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Italian banks may take ham and wine as collateral
(No, this isn't a lead story of the Onion, it is a story on The Guardian, at least wine and ham won't spoil as quick as a mortgage backed security)
The plan follows an Italian tradition of accepting wheels of parmesan cheese as loan collateral
Italian bank vaults may soon resemble well stocked delicatessens if a plan goes ahead to accept expensive wines and dry-cured hams as collateral on bank loans from crisis-hit producers.
The idea, which was launched this week by an influential Italian bank chairman and wine producer, was backed by an Italian minister and follows the tradition of Italian banks storing massive wheels of parmesan cheese as loan collateral.
"We've done it with cheese, why not with prosciutto and good wines like Brunello di Montalcino and chianti classico?" said Gianni Zonin, chairman of the Banca Popolare di Vicenza and head of wine producer Zonin.
"This is a great idea, it has my blessing," said Luca Zaia, the Italian agriculture minister.
The Italian bank Credito Emiliano has long stored hundreds of thousands of parmesan wheels, worth about ¤300 each, in warehouses as collateral while they age.
Since the bank can sell the cheese if creditors default, it can afford to offer low interest rates to an industry which is suffering from recession and supermarket discounting.
Legs of cured ham, or prosciutto crudo, weighing about 10kg, can sell for hundreds of euros after months of curing in controlled conditions, while bottles of Brunello di Montalcino are regularly snapped up for the same amount.
"We may start off with accepting wine as collateral, but I would prefer the Italian banking association to launch an industry-wide scheme which involves a range of products," said Zonin. "This will help producers in times of crisis as well as when the economy picks up."
Zaia said he would take the matter up with the Italian treasury minister.
"Apart from meeting the need of companies for liquidity, this proposal also recognises that our true gold reserves are the excellent products we make in Italy," he said.
........(.Again, at least the wine won't sour as fast as CDOs did.)
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I change with the times-
but like silver coins found in your change
I stay the same.
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The United States of America started out as the new Republic of Rome.
Will The United States of America end up as the New Imperial Rome? |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 19:06:43
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It's both sad and funny.
Funny in that it sounds like a good idea. Loans backed by collateral, even though you can eat the collateral.
Sad, in that hard assets are trivialized. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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fb101
Administrator
USA
2856 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 19:24:35
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| I wonder if that will work in the U.S. soon? |
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keys
Penny Collector Member
383 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 19:50:00
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As a side thought, I wonder if the US Government has enough real physical things to cover one fourth of the national debt.
Supposed you added up the total value of the precious stones and rare minerals in the Smithsonian, the total value of the rare coins in the US Mint (especially the Philadelphia Mint, more on that later) the total value of the national strategic reserves (whatever is left) the total value of the trees as lumber in the national forests (not national parks, national forests) the total value of the artwork in Congress and the White House, the total value of all of those things and more-would they equal three trillion dolars?
I'm just trying to figure out if the US has three trillion dollars of collateral to back up its debt, thought I have a feeling the answer is no.
The Philadelphia Mint- as a youngster I used to visit the US Mint in Philadelphia and I recall that there was a room filled with gold coins called the Rittenhouse Room (I do not know if the room is still open to the public due to security measures.) Those gold coins as I can best recall (vaugely recall) were $20 gold pieces, but there may have been $10 or $5 also, I can't remember.
I also remember that in the self guided tour of the Philadelphia Mint there was one exibit of what a 1880's assayers office looked like, with a wax dummy dressed up in period garb, the desk, the scale typically used, etc.
What I remember to this day was in that exibit, hanging on the wall, was a display case used by assayers back then that had small bars of differing purities of gold that would allow assayers to tell what gold they were assaying by sight by comparing it to the different colored gold bars. There was also a silver bar included in the display case but it had turned black due to the passage of time. Sorry there are no photographs to give a better description of this, but cameras were not permitted in the Mint building back then and I can only imagine what the security protocols are today.
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I change with the times-
but like silver coins found in your change
I stay the same.
*****************
The United States of America started out as the new Republic of Rome.
Will The United States of America end up as the New Imperial Rome? |
Edited by - keys on 08/25/2009 19:54:23 |
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
693 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 20:15:33
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| Confiscation is part of the plan. |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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coinwolf
Penny Collector Member
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 20:16:22
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Me thinks this is a good idea, food and wine are always a good commodity if you ask me! |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 21:03:28
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quote:
Originally posted by keys
The Philadelphia Mint- as a youngster I used to visit the US Mint in Philadelphia and I recall that there was a room filled with gold coins called the Rittenhouse Room (I do not know if the room is still open to the public due to security measures.) Those gold coins as I can best recall (vaugely recall) were $20 gold pieces, but there may have been $10 or $5 also, I can't remember.
When I lived in the Philadelphia area years ago, I used to love that room. I went there in the 60's by myself as I caught a bus into Philadelphia. There were four or five clear glass walls six feet high just filled with gold coins from 1795 and later. The mint gold collection housed there was unbelievable! "ALL" the rare ones were there. In those days, you could get up right close to the glass with your RedBook in hand and admire the sparkling old gold coins that had been set aside by the mint years ago. Of course, there was a guard and cameras watching you. I believe the Rittenhouse room is still open to the public, but I don't know if all the rare gold is still there due to its immense value nowadays. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 21:10:57
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I don't think hard assets are being trivialized at all. This apparently is a tradition in Italy. Heck the practice of hard assets for collateral is as old as time.
Maybe this could morph into bartering and exchanging said hard assets, bypassing currency altogether, just like days of old. Admittedly more than likely not, but I can wish...
I like it. It illuminates the fact that fiat currency and most, if not all, "financial instruments" are a fraud when you clear the smoke and mirrors.
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Gresham
Penny Pincher Member
184 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 17:02:15
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| I think its a great idea. Excuse me while I exchange some of my toilet paper for some cheese, wine, and ham. |
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 21:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by fb101
I wonder if that will work in the U.S. soon?
Good question. Will the banks take beanie babies, X-Boxes, Playstations, Plasma Tee-Vee's, granite countertops, leased Lexus's, baseball cards, Nascar "collectibles", or perhaps overprice Mc Mansions for collateral?
Can't eat, drink or even sell any of those items.....
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"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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Delawhere Jack
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1680 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 21:57:46
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Being a United States citizen of Irish descent, I feel a close kinship to the Italians. We have a lot in common in terms of cultural mores and religious heritage. Both of our cultures have suffered many travails in the recently past centuries, but each has managed to hold on to those values which have been engrained in us by generations of hardship.
I only wish that I could say the same of my fellow countrymen here in the USA.
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"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Thomas Jefferson
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keys
Penny Collector Member
383 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 17:58:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Delawhere Jack
quote:
Originally posted by fb101
I wonder if that will work in the U.S. soon?
Good question. Will the banks take beanie babies, X-Boxes, Playstations, Plasma Tee-Vee's, granite countertops, leased Lexus's, baseball cards, Nascar "collectibles", or perhaps overprice Mc Mansions for collateral?
Can't eat, drink or even sell any of those items.....
Unless I am mistaken, the circitry in X-boxes & Playstations have gold plating on them (small amounts, but enough to get a gold recycler interested) some of the Plasma TVs have rare earth elements in them so they have a recycle value.
California wine makers produce some quality wines close to (some would say equal to) French quality wines so offering wine as collateral wouldn't be impractical.
The only drawback is banks that take collateral gain the appearance of pawnbrokers, but considering how badly the banks acted during the real estate fiasco being confused for a pawnbroker wouldn't be so bad.
Country, I am glad I am not the only person on this forum who knows about that room in the PHiladelphia Mint. It has been a few decades since the last time I was there but I remember the beautiful gold coins distictly. I am glad I got the name right, The Rittenhouse Room, named after Rittenhouse, an inventor and financier of the American Revolution.
Do you or anyone else remember the assayer display in the Philadelphia Mint? It was on the floor where you conducted the self-guided tours, I think it was in the back part of the tour.
For those who have never been on the tour, you go up two escalators and follow along a corridor and you look down and watch as the minting machines turn out coins by the thousands.
Back in the late 1980's they installed a metal detector you had to pass through before going on the tour, I suspect that the security requirements are much more strict nowadays.
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I change with the times-
but like silver coins found in your change
I stay the same.
*****************
The United States of America started out as the new Republic of Rome.
Will The United States of America end up as the New Imperial Rome? |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 19:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by keys
Do you or anyone else remember the assayer display in the Philadelphia Mint? It was on the floor where you conducted the self-guided tours, I think it was in the back part of the tour.
For those who have never been on the tour, you go up two escalators and follow along a corridor and you look down and watch as the minting machines turn out coins by the thousands.
I remember walking along the corridor to watch the coin minting below on the enormous mint floor. It was the size of an airport hanger. I don't have any clear memories about the assayer display - sorry. |
---> Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
– Theodore Roosevelt
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Is this funny or sad?
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