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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 17:56:11
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okay... so now you've won the lottery. Storage isn't a problem. Let's assume you are smart enough to convert the majority of your winnings to silver and gold. Do you... A) take a lump sum payoff, and the tax hit, and then convert that amount? or B) take the million a year option (or whatever) pay your taxes each year... and then dollar cost avg into PM's over the next twenty years? I basically did this by cashing out my fire dept pension and buying silver and gold last July at $900/$13. Figured that would be better than monthly checks worth increasingly less as the dollar depreciates.
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Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/ http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3121 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 18:46:10
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I think for large amounts of lottery winnings you would be better off taking the lump sum payout even though it is smaller than the multi-year annunity. Who knows if 10 years from now that state from which you won will not pay out the CASH to you? It's guarantee is only as good as the stability of the payer.
As far as cashing out of your personal annunity pension, which will be much smaller than winning the lottery, that's another matter. It depends on what other assets you have already. If you've got a substantial amount of PMs already, maybe getting a long term CASH retirement benefit will be a diversifier against the case for deflation, however remote currently, if it comes to pass. During the Great Depression, those who had a pension were far better off than the millions of unemployed out-of-luck Americans. It's sort of like diversifying your investment portfolio with stocks, bonds, and other non-correlated assets. |
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Edited by - Country on 05/13/2010 18:53:27 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 19:18:08
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I think paper and paper-related assets are the height of investment insanity right now. I couldn't see myself investing in anything besides tangibles...especially considering my own history with worthless paper:
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quote: One of the stupidest things I’ve ever done happened about 10 years ago. I was going to college, and driving a taxi to pay the bills. One day this guy flagged me down and asked me if I’d take him from where we were in central Alabama to northern Georgia for $250. I was eager for a lucrative fare and told him I’d take him, but I should’ve had second thoughts before I agreed to take a check. Nine hours and 530 miles later, I was back home and deposited the check in my account. Imagine my surprise, then disgust, when I got a call from my bank that the check had been returned because the account it was written on was closed.
What kind of an idiot was I??
A pretty big one. Lesson learned the hard way. Even though this check had a technical face value of $250, it was worthless because the only place where that promise to pay could be redeemed refused to pay. I was left holding a worthless piece of paper.
People who are selling their “unwanted” gold and silver to all of these slick marketers across the country are getting pieces of paper that could soon be worthless. As I noted above, that paper “money” in your purse or wallet has lost 97 percent of its purchasing power since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. If you need funds to pay bills, or worse, if you want funds to be able to buy items that are not essential for your long-term survival — remember, you can’t eat a plasma-screen TV — sell off items that you don’t need and can do without. Sell that motorcycle, that boat, your old dusty LP collection or other antiques. But DON’T SELL YOUR GOLD. If, as expected, the U.S. dollar soon goes the way of every other fiat currency and becomes worthless through hyperinflation, nobody is going to want all of the junk you’ve bought with the FRNs you received for your gold. But gold and silver have always been accepted worldwide as something of value, and I think it’s safe to say that they always will. Nobody is going to want your plasma-screen TV after the dollar collapses, so save yourself the trouble and don’t sell your gold to buy that TV in the first place. If Weimar Germany were here today, nobody would want your plasma-screen TV. But gold and silver have always been accepted as a medium of exchange and a store of value when one currency dies and another one takes its place. I think it’s safe to say that we’re following Weimar Germany’s footsteps. Sell your REAL junk now. And don’t buy more junk that you don’t need and won’t be able to use later. But most importantly, don’t sell your gold. But if you decide to sell it, I’ve got a $250 check I’ll give you for it. I promise.
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 22:11:09
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quote: Originally posted by beauanderos
okay... so now you've won the lottery. Storage isn't a problem. Let's assume you are smart enough to convert the majority of your winnings to silver and gold. Do you... A) take a lump sum payoff, and the tax hit, and then convert that amount? or B) take the million a year option (or whatever) pay your taxes each year... and then dollar cost avg into PM's over the next twenty years? I basically did this by cashing out my fire dept pension and buying silver and gold last July at $900/$13. Figured that would be better than monthly checks worth increasingly less as the dollar depreciates.
I would definately take option "A" and your last point is basically my arguement. Also its true that taking a lump sum would mean a large tax hit. However, it is likely that higher (perhaps confiscatory) taxes are in our future. Finally you can still ddollar-cost-average if you take the lump sum. |
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 22:15:03
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quote: Originally posted by Country
I think for large amounts of lottery winnings you would be better off taking the lump sum payout even though it is smaller than the multi-year annunity. Who knows if 10 years from now that state from which you won will not pay out the CASH to you? It's guarantee is only as good as the stability of the payer.
As far as cashing out of your personal annunity pension, which will be much smaller than winning the lottery, that's another matter. It depends on what other assets you have already. If you've got a substantial amount of PMs already, maybe getting a long term CASH retirement benefit will be a diversifier against the case for deflation, however remote currently, if it comes to pass. During the Great Depression, those who had a pension were far better off than the millions of unemployed out-of-luck Americans. It's sort of like diversifying your investment portfolio with stocks, bonds, and other non-correlated assets.
Buying an annuity creates the same problem. Can you trust the entity whom you purchase the annuity from to be around in ten years? Can any company remain solvent during what we are headed for? I still have a small pension from my municipality (as long as they don't go bankrupt... I'm in California) which is enough to pay the bills with a small amount left over... as long as I'm debt free... which I am in the process of accomplishing. The silver and gold is never meant to be touched, except for emergencies, and then as necessary, just convert a small amount each month to whatever currency we have in the future for modest living expenses. |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/ http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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highroller4321
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2648 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 11:03:07
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quote: Originally posted by Country
I think for large amounts of lottery winnings you would be better off taking the lump sum payout even though it is smaller than the multi-year annunity. Who knows if 10 years from now that state from which you won will not pay out the CASH to you? It's guarantee is only as good as the stability of the payer.
As far as cashing out of your personal annunity pension, which will be much smaller than winning the lottery, that's another matter. It depends on what other assets you have already. If you've got a substantial amount of PMs already, maybe getting a long term CASH retirement benefit will be a diversifier against the case for deflation, however remote currently, if it comes to pass. During the Great Depression, those who had a pension were far better off than the millions of unemployed out-of-luck Americans. It's sort of like diversifying your investment portfolio with stocks, bonds, and other non-correlated assets.
Took the words right out of my mouth! |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 11:32:35
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lump sum.
its not smaller than the multi year amount when you factor in the time value of money. they pay you the net present value, which should be an equivalent amount.
however, that equivalence depends on the assets tehy invest, typically govt bonds, and counterparty risk with the state govt. california last year was paying tax rebates in funny money, so i wouldn't want the counter party risk. |
Buying: Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00 copper cents at 1.3X wheat pennies at 3X
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beauanderos
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2408 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 11:51:53
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I'm thinking about doing the same thing with my 401k's before Obama annexes them. I turn 59 1/2 at the end of August... which is usually near the nadir of weakness for PM's... so I may pull out of them lump sum and buy more metals if they haven't exploded by then |
Hoard now and hold on!
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/ http://wherewillyoubein2012.blogspot.com/ |
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1588 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 12:03:08
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quote: Originally posted by beauanderos
I'm thinking about doing the same thing with my 401k's before Obama annexes them. I turn 59 1/2 at the end of August... which is usually near the nadir of weakness for PM's... so I may pull out of them lump sum and buy more metals if they haven't exploded by then
a good point is taxes.
a 401k is a tax deferral structure. you still pay taxes, but you defer them into the future. this is generally considered advantageous based on 2 assumptions. first, deferring the taxes allows compounding now which is a net benefit, and second, your applicable tax rate will be lower in the future when you retire.
the compounding argument is technically correct but a very slight factor.
the tax rate assumption is very questionable. if you just consider the expiration of the bush tax cuts, it makes sense to withdraw this year. second, a lot of folks keep working, so their rate does not decline.
another benefit of a withdrawl is you can then invest in a wider array of assets. |
Buying: Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00 copper cents at 1.3X wheat pennies at 3X
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AGCoinHunter
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
685 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 12:37:35
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What if you’re in your mid-30's and want to do the same with your 401k? Taking that tax hit for early withdrawal and paying that tax upfront just doesn’t make sense, but if they are seized by the govt then its better than nothing... It’s such a hard decision because you are playing with the money you worked hard to set aside for retirement that the libturds are eyeing to redistribute to the welfare class. |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 12:46:07
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quote: Originally posted by AGCoinHunter
What if you’re in your mid-30's and want to do the same with your 401k? Taking that tax hit for early withdrawal and paying that tax upfront just doesn’t make sense, but if they are seized by the govt then its better than nothing... It’s such a hard decision because you are playing with the money you worked hard to set aside for retirement that the libturds are eyeing to redistribute to the welfare class.
I'm 39 so I'm just a few years ahead of you, and I don't trust the future of a fiat dollar one bit. Look at the figures of how much paper currency the Fed is printing and you'll see that we're heading for major, major problems for those whose wealth is tied up in paper. I've converted my meager paper assets to silver and have just kept a few thousand aside outside of the bank for emergency funds. And the government can't redistribute wealth (and by wealth I mean primarily PMs) that it doesn't know you have hidden at home or in another safe place. |
Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net --Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively
---------------
Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html
Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1964 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 13:48:08
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It's all about buying power. Definitely get it all upfront. Country mentioned the ability of the payer to continue doing so in the future. I would add even if they could, what would the buying power be in 10-20 years?
What would a million dollars buy 20 years ago? What will it buy 20 years from now? There is a reason why the states like and promote the installment option...
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 14:01:21
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I would take it all in one lump sum too. Who knows what a million dollars will buy you 5 to 10 years from now. It might be like hyperinflation 1930's Germany and then you would really be kicking yourself for not taking all the money at once.
On the 2nd point, do you guys not at least do the match on your employer retirement accounts? I would at least do up to the match and it makes your taxable income go down since it is pre-tax. |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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El Dee
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 16:06:42
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All you have to do is look at the CPE index over the years.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Except for a period of time during the Great Depression, and right after WW1, and in 2009, the value of the dollar has always dropped.
But...many folks cannot handle big sums of money. A high percentage of lottery winners are broke in a few years, so it makes sense for them to take an annuity.
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Trust the government? Ask an Indian. |
Edited by - El Dee on 05/14/2010 17:16:59 |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
2080 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 16:27:23
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Haha, first thing you do is hire a lawyer, use an alias. Then move the F- out of town. |
Trolling is an art. |
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1720 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 16:43:32
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quote: Originally posted by Nickelless
quote: Originally posted by El Dee
But...many folks cannot handle big sums of money. A high percentage of lottery winners are broke in a few years, so it makes sense for them to take an annuity.
Worst-case scenario:
You must be logged in to see this link.(lottery_winner)
The "lotto curse"
If anyone in here wins a couple of million in the lotto, you can donate it to me and I'll take the chance of getting the lotto curse :-) haha |
SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson |
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Nickelless
Administrator
USA
5580 Posts |
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