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Flbandit
Penny Collector Member
USA
356 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2008 : 21:10:07
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I've been wondering, WTSHTF, where would be the best place to live? Mountains, near the ocean, up north, way south or what? What do ya'll think?
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Are you throwing that out? |
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TenBears
Penny Hoarding Member
769 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2008 : 22:07:16
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| You need to have a fresh water source in an area with a low population density -- and not close to a metropolitan area. I would not want to be near literally hundreds of thousands of starving people. And, I think you would want to be more than one gas tank away from such areas. West Texas will be where I go. But, in a perfect world I might like somewhere up in Oregon or Washington State. Woods and mountains provide good cover to roving bands of the hungry I would think. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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misteroman
Moderator
USA
1159 Posts |
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Nickelless
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 03:26:39
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quote:
Originally posted by TenBears
You need to have a fresh water source in an area with a low population density -- and not close to a metropolitan area. I would not want to be near literally hundreds of thousands of starving people. And, I think you would want to be more than one gas tank away from such areas. West Texas will be where I go. But, in a perfect world I might like somewhere up in Oregon or Washington State. Woods and mountains provide good cover to roving bands of the hungry I would think.
But what if everyone else realizes this and starts heading for those same areas? It's like Groucho Marx said: "Nobody goes there anymore...it's too crowded." Or are the odds of the U.S. outback being overrun with people WTSHTF more remote than I'm assuming would be theoretically possible? |
Bid your heart out on my copper cent auctions : http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZyellowbanks42301 |
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Saul Mine
Penny Collector Member
USA
318 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 04:23:37
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It depends on what you think TSHTF actually means. It's rather depressing to prepare for the wrong disaster.
I have asked on a lot of forums what people think TSHTF really means. Nobody knew, but everybody had some dream scenario they hoped to live out. It seemed to coincide with their hobby. Shooters assumed it would be a gunfight, campers were sure it would involve living in the wilderness, weekend warriors thought they would have to sneak through various obstacles, gardeners saved heirloom seeds, homebodies buried a bomb shelter in the yard, etc. Preppers generally have no idea what they should prepare for, but they don't let that stop them.
The only clear theory I have found is at http://darkage2007.blogspot.com/ and the most significant statement you will find there is "Details vary." For real world advice about a real disaster, go to http://www.frfrogspad.com/disastr.htm |
A penny sorted is a penny earned!
Please use tinyurl.com to post links. Long links make posts hard to read. |
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Ant
Penny Collector Member
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 05:41:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Saul Mine
I have asked on a lot of forums what people think TSHTF really means. Nobody knew, but everybody had some dream scenario they hoped to live out. It seemed to coincide with their hobby.
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"No, man. You gotta keep goin'. What am I gonna do? Quit? That's not an option. Life's a garden. Dig it? You make it work for you. You never give up, man. That's my philosophy." --Joe Dirt |
Edited by - Ant on 07/02/2008 05:42:21 |
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Kurr
Penny Collector Member
288 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 08:28:33
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I agree, thats the funniest thing I've read in forever! Good bit of insight there too.
I guess for me the best place to be WTSHTF is ... Not under that fan. |
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
Democracy is three wolves and two sheep voting on whats for dinner.
Freedom is armed sheep contesting the vote. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1097 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 09:27:31
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I read a blogger once from a person living in a WTSHF scenario. I am pretty sure that he was in Brazil, but I am not sure. It was definitely someplace in South America that went through a currency collapse, high unemployment, high crime, destruction of the middle class, corruption/underfunding of law enforcement, and was generally suffering the woes caused by a two class society with little upward mobility (only downward).
Anyhow, the surprising thing about the blog was some things were a bit counterintuitive to what most people think. The big thing being that living in the country was NOT something that you wanted to do. Armed gangs roamed the countryside taking over homesteads and robbing and killing entire families (sometimes torturing them for a week or two before killing them). Guard dogs were routinely poisoned and gangs took advantage of the fact that only a large family could maintain a 24hr watch. Criminal gangs would watch and strike and their leisure when a family or individual was the most vulnerable. Being able to isolate victims in the countryside as well as the gutted police force made the criminals bolder and living in the country became a weakness instead of a strength in many cases.
If I had to make to a guess, safety will be in numbers but not too big of numbers. A small town or outer suburb not too close to a main road full of likeminded armed neighbors and hopefully a few honest police officers would be ideal. Sure there will more crime and random acts of violence, but getting mugged and killed while walking down the street would be better than watching your family tortured and killed over the span of a week with no hope of any help coming.
Now if you could start a compound of several armed families in the countryside that might be a little different. Or if your likeminded neighbors reached the point of desperation from starvation, that would make the small town or outer suburb theory not work out so well.
Also another main theme of the blog was that it was KEY to look as poor and as hungry and as desperate as everybody else. Living on a farm or ranch with acres of food growing and livestock visible, does not fit that bill. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
1097 Posts |
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Cody8404
Penny Collector Member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 16:54:59
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| Read the news coming out of Zimbabwe and North Korea as well. |
Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ. |
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legacypac
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
883 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 17:59:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Flbandit
I've been wondering, WTSHTF, where would be the best place to live? Mountains, near the ocean, up north, way south or what? What do ya'll think?
Simple... if TSHTF in the US... you want to be in Canada |
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starwarsgeek171
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
564 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 18:05:22
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horgad, scary stuff. That family situation reminds me of a movie called Funny Games. Luckily I live on just the kind of street you described. In addition to many family farms, there are also many trades represented in my local area.
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Bluegill
Penny Pincher Member
USA
237 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2008 : 18:26:15
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Horgads post hit the nail on the head. Anarchy will probably be the new law of the land. I think one will need to be extremely mobile and be able to pack up and move on a very short notice. I think the "compound" line of thinking could be fatal.
You will definately need to band together with other people you can truly trust for mutual protection.
I would not want to be in the southern states when the weather turns to winter, everybody will be heading there to get away from the cold. I'll be heading north into MI's upper penisula away from the mobs. Heck I'll probably keep going and cross into Canada.
Forget about trusting the police. Show me an honest cop and I'll show you a liar.
Of course this will all depend on what definition of TSHTF gets used, how quickly it happens and how severe it is.
Again, JMHO
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"But nobody really appreciates laissez-faire capitalism, least of all the capitalists. They all want to control the future, not let it happen. And everybody wants to gain some edge...some little favor or advantage – a monopoly, a subsidy, a fat contract with the government, a handout, free food, free medicine, crop supports, student loans, a guaranteed pension, a bailout, a tax credit...some kind of greasy giveaway; the last thing they want is a free market, where the chips fall where they may." - Bill Bonner |
Edited by - Bluegill on 07/02/2008 19:03:04 |
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Delawhere Jack
Penny Pincher Member
USA
248 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 17:53:06
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I just got back from 5 days in the Florida Keys, and it may be a place to consider. The growing season is pretty much year round, but you'd have to plant "crops" in containers as there is little or no topsoil. Seafood is never more than a mile away, and very plentiful. Coconuts are everywhere, I never realized just how many are growing on a tree at one time, lots! Banana trees are common too. Fresh water could be a problem, so you'd need to build cisterns to hold rainwater. The locals consider the winter pretty rough when the temps get down into the upper 50'F's, boo-hoo.
The downside would be it's proximity to Miami-Dade. If you've ever watch the TV show Cops, that is where it is primarily filmed, of course, it you blew a few bridges....
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"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God?" - Thomas Jefferson |
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Nickelless
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
818 Posts |
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Flbandit
Penny Collector Member
USA
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 20:55:37
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| What brought this up was looking at some mountain property. It would be a few years yet before I could do it, but I've seen some pretty good deals on 20-30 acre tracts in TN. Most have wells, and some have creeks and ponds. Could do alot with that much land. |
Are you throwing that out? |
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fb101
Penny Collector Member
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 22:11:47
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| Antarctica. |
A taxpayer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Frank Perdue |
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Nickelless
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
818 Posts |
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natsb88
Penny Collector Member
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2008 : 23:33:40
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| I like the mountains. Plenty to hunt and some to pick, streams and ponds for fresh water. Lumber to build shelter and fires. Plus they're only a mile or two from my front door Also lots of farms in this area. Only a few miles from the river too. |
Nate
www.coppercave.com |
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Ponce
Penny Pincher Member
Cuba
171 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 11:44:25
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Best place to live WTSHTF??? for me that's a very easy answer...........in Cuba, why? Cuba has been living under WTSHTF for the past 46 years so that they know what to do about it, no one has died of hunger and most people cooperate with each other in order to survive the day to day tragedy.
As a survivalist to be that's why I left CA and moved into the woods of OR back in 2,000 and keeping the lessons learned from Cuba I have been getting ready for all of those eight years.....
"To be ready is not"... Ponce..........but I sure as hell can try. |
"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"...Ponce |
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TenBears
Penny Hoarding Member
769 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 22:34:52
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There are good comments and thoughts in this thread. Saul has a good point in that most people think of a SHTF scenario which is in line with their hobby. Despite how one prepares, whatever preparation one does is better than no preparation.
I tend to think in terms of what is more likely. TSH already HTF in the US once. We know that as the Great Depression. I think that could happen again. Shoot, something akin to an economic collapse could be happening now. Think of all the foreclosures and all those Californians living out of their cars. California real estate got to be crazy expensive. Frankly, I don't know how anyone could afford to live there even on good six digit salaries. So, with a Depression type scenario in mind, I think country living would be good just about anywhere that is some distance from the nearest metropolitan area. In the Great Depression, a man with a working ranch or farm could at least feed and clothe his family. It might not have been luxury, but it kept one out of the soup lines and with a roof over one's head.
Now, with regard to the comment that country living would not be preferred because of roving armed gangs, well, that is a much different SHTF scenario than just a depression. If we have roving gangs in the countryside, then we do not have an effective government. Furthermore, if that is the case, there will be little, if any, food production in this nation. Everyone will be starving. God help us all then. In that case, the best thing you have going for you is your brain and perhaps mobility.
A good thing to do is to study the specific indians who lived in your area, wherever it is you live. Indians lived off the land. If they could do it, you could too if need be. Of course, you won't have great herds of bison for meat, but you should study the plants they ate. Prior to doing a little studying, I did not know that a person could eat prickly pear cactus as well as grind up mesquite beans to creat a mesquite meal bread.
Whatever scenarios occurs, there are some simple truths. I am sure others can add to this list, and I will only post one. First, and perhaps foremost, be armed. It is a good idea to be well armed even in the best of times. |
"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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knibloe
Penny Collector Member
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 23:31:21
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This thread has been on my mind all day. I live in the country. We grow a garden, plant fruit trees, have our own firewood, have honey bees, we have had livestock in the past and could easily do it again. The thougth has allways been that we would be prepared for SHF. However, we live on a main road not far form two villages and less than 50 miles from 1 million people.
There is no way we could stand against any number of ruffians without a substantial amount of help. We have 6 families in my area that are like mine. We would likely have to band together and live in one "compound" as it was called in one of the posts. That would mean that 5 of us would have to abandon our homes. My friend Rob has by far the biggest house and the best terrain for defense. In fact I am sure that it sits on the site of a former indian village and they settled there for a reason. It would be hard to leave my home. |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1327 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 23:33:42
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I might not have land or a great homestead, but my protection services would be in demand....Barter system.
Deal |
I'm so sick over pennies....I frequently trade a dime or two for the whole "take-a-penny" container if sufficient coppers exist. That will get you some odd looks.
Steady looking for the elusive Indian head.... |
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TenBears
Penny Hoarding Member
769 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2008 : 10:59:53
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quote:
Originally posted by NotABigDeal
I might not have land or a great homestead, but my protection services would be in demand....Barter system.
Deal
I agree with that. There may be a lot of that depending upon how bad TSHTF, if and when it does.
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"Rich," the Old Man said dreamily, "is not baying after what you can't have. Rich is having the time to do what you want to do. Rich is a little whiskey to drink and some food to eat and a roof over your head and a fish pole and a boat and a gun and a dollar for a box of shells. Rich is not owing any money to anybody, and not spending what you haven't got." Robert Ruark
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...
there are too wild Indians...-----still taunted
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
3170 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2008 : 11:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by TenBears
Shoot, something akin to an economic collapse could be happening now. Think of all the foreclosures and all those Californians living out of their cars.
Yeah, but we have really big cars! 
California real estate got to be crazy expensive. Frankly, I don't know how anyone could afford to live there even on good six digit salaries.
It's easy.. you just sell a few tons off out of your hoard to cover the mortgage. Heck, I pay my house payment with zinc pennies almost every month.
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If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
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Flbandit
Penny Collector Member
USA
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2008 : 14:45:21
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| Deal makes a good point! I was thinking about this earlier. I'm not as young as I once was, and some days I'm in a good bit of pain. I can still shoot and will if I have to, but what of elderly people, disabled people, or those of limited mobility. I suppose they will really need something to barter with in order to secure protection, especially if they have no family. A roving warrior could make a good living. |
Are you throwing that out? |
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Best place to live when SHTF?
