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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1349 Posts |
 Posted - 04/22/2008 : 14:28:03
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I have been asked many times (at least 6) about my choice of the Che Avatar via private messages. One person, a while back, was deeply offended, but most people are just curious or slightly offended and stay polite. Anyhow, I thought I would publically air a few of my thoughts on Che and let others give their thoughts.
If nothing else, I can point people to this thread when I get a PM instead of typing out a similar reply for what would be the 7th time. 
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Che is a complex individual and he means different things to different people. To me, simply categorizing him as a socialist or a communist and closing the book on him is not looking deep enough.
As for myself, I view him simply as a man that fought to TRY to give freedom to people who lived under oppressive governments. In the end, it is arguable whether or not he improved the lives of those he was fighting for, but I believe that his heart was in the right place.
If he wanted to, he could have quit fighting after Cuba and lived like a king (like Castro), but instead he continued to try and help others find freedom and eventually he gave his life in that effort.
So I agree with Nelson Mandela when he says that Che is "an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom".
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Flbandit
Penny Collector Member
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2008 : 19:30:50
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| I've heard there is a book about him that tells of his travels by motorcycle. The Big Boss of our company told me about it. He said it was a very good read. |
Are you throwing that out? |
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fiatboy
Administrator
912 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2008 : 20:10:43
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| I'm not exactly a fan of Che, but in my humble opinion, he lived his life more as an artist than anything else. He aspired towards an aesthetic, unlike most revolutionaries or politicians. I strongly disagree with much of what he believed, but he never lost sight of the human element. |
"Bart, it's not about how many stocks you have, it's about how much copper wire you can get out of the building." --- Homer Simpson |
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moboman
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1335 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2008 : 20:28:37
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Wow he was a lot more of a "revolutionary" than I thought. My history classes never talked about him in the Congo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara
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I have a hard time resisting the temptation to take a wheat penny out of the take a penny cup when I see one! |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1349 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2008 : 07:30:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Flbandit
I've heard there is a book about him that tells of his travels by motorcycle. The Big Boss of our company told me about it. He said it was a very good read.
Yes that book is on my future reading list. It gives some insight into the kinder, gentler Che before he became a revolutionary and eventually, allegedly, a brutal executioner. Supposedly it was his travels through South America via motorcycle and visiting with and getting in touch with the poor that added fuel to his hatred for oppressive governments.
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Ponce
Penny Pincher Member
Cuba
174 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2008 : 21:26:44
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I spoke with El Che back in 1959, only to say hi, before I left Cuba and joined the US Army....... My dad was a personal friend of his when he was incharged of the sugar industry in Cuba.
My dad also invented one of the two sugar cane cutting machines made in Cuba.
One time my dad was visiting one of the sugar mills and as he was saying good to the the guy incharged of that particular sugar mill the guy asked him "Aren't you saying goodby to El Che?", my dad looked around and the only other person there was this black guy, heheeheheh, my dad asked "El Che? I don't see him, where is he?" and the guy answered "infront of you that's El Che" hahahahahah, what was going on is that that very same morning the was a big fire in the sugar cane fields and El Che went to help to put out the fire and that's why he as all black.
Also spoke with Morgan who was an American who made Mayor in Castro's army and was sent to the firing squad.
Those were the glorious days, I was with Castro for six months. |
"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"...Ponce |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1349 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 07:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ponce
I spoke with El Che back in 1959, only to say hi, before I left Cuba and joined the US Army....... My dad was a personal friend of his...
Also spoke with Morgan who was an American who made Mayor in Castro's army and was sent to the firing squad.
Thanks for that. I did not know the story on Morgan. So I looked it up.
"A year earlier he had been hailed as a hero of the revolt that put Castro in power. Morgan was known as the ``Yanqui Comandante'' and was promoted to major, the highest rank to be given a non-Cuban in Castro's forces.
But after the revolution, Morgan began criticizing the direction of Castro and his government. He spoke out against Communism and openly questioned why Castro was courting leaders in the Soviet Union."
As for Che, I have a question for you and maybe this question hits to close to home, so I understand it if you don't want to answer it.
Anyhow, history seems to try and paint Che as either a brutal executioner and killer willing to go to any lengths to get what he wanted or as selfless revolutionary fighting for the freedom of the poor and common man. Most likely the truth, like most truths, is somewhere in the middle,
So how do you view Che and how much truth is there in the stories of his darker side?
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Edited by - horgad on 04/25/2008 07:01:21 |
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wolvesdad
Penny Collector Member
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 07:53:48
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I also am no expert, but two things I've read and discussed with others:
"The Motorcycle Diaries" are a romanticized view of Che. (I saw it and enjoyed the movie...but that doesn't make it a realistic or factual account)
And: If not in his younger years, at least by his middle to later years he was a 'murderer'. Again, I guess some may argue that it was in his 'idealistic fight' but he ordered and participated in the execution of many people who did not support the Communists(but who protested against the movement).
I understand that people need an idealistic revolutionary type to 'look up to', however he became an oppresive, ruthless martial enforcing a government regime. In my eyes, he is not the guy you would want your kids to look up to. If you want revolutionaries, look to the American revolution and you will find more than enough fine role models who, while not perfect, kept a love for their fellow man that was NOT trumped by their desire for 'freedom' or change. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1349 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 09:56:47
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quote:
Originally posted by wolvesdad
If you want revolutionaries, look to the American revolution and you will find more than enough fine role models who, while not perfect, kept a love for their fellow man that was NOT trumped by their desire for 'freedom' or change.
Perhaps, but only if you kept to the more "academic" of the American revolutionaries. As for the fighting men, even George Washington has been accused of murder(war crimes). |
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wolvesdad
Penny Collector Member
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2008 : 13:40:26
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Yeah, that is funny sometimes....
IT seems the same modern historians that don't mind 'idealizing' Che are the same ones that attempt to deconstruct Washington, and Adams and Jefferson. They do this sometimes just for the shock effect and self gain from 'proposing something new.'
I haven't read that about Washington though. IF it is an obscure occurence it could have been a questionable situation that he handled the best he could, or made a big mistake. THough I think most(or all historians) would agree this type of occurance was not of his nature or behaviour. I am of the understanding that Che was(or later became) of the nature of being brutal and ruthless when he found it necessary to promote his ideology. |
"May your percentages ever increase!" |
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