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biglouddrunk
Penny Sorter Member
86 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2009 : 01:42:30
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Poll Question:
Do you think Federal Currency should have the phrase in god we trust on it?
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biglouddrunk
Penny Sorter Member
86 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 01:46:54
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| I just curious what people on this forum think. I'm a bit of an atheist however I have no strong opinion either way because I am reasonable enough to understand by using this currency I am not selling out on my beliefs. My personal opinion is it probably should not with the separation of church and state in all, but I understand such words are traditional and they don't imply that all who use the currency believe in a god. |
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buyingsilvers
Penny Collector Member
437 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 05:10:08
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| Yes. CHANGE is not always a good thing, although some people would like to believe it is. |
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brian0918
Penny Sorter Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 07:51:26
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| No, but then I am opposed to government coining of money altogether, and other things like forced taxation, public education and roads, etc. The only proper role for the government is to protect and uphold individual rights through the police, military, and courts. |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand |
Edited by - brian0918 on 06/17/2009 08:00:01 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1603 Posts |
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Gresham
Penny Pincher Member
164 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 09:27:13
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| All I know is that it appeared on the currency about the time they started putting politicians on the coins and taking the silver and gold out. If they really trusted God they would've left the silver and gold in, because God has some pretty strong things to say about watering down the money supply. |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1661 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 10:25:08
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+2 doublegood Gresham!!
I prefer Liberty as a representation to Free Will. To "trust in God" is to use the gifts and tools he gave us. The first was Free Will i.e. Liberty.
She'll do just fine on my money. |
Selling coppers- 1.4 + shipping or trade, PM me!! ~100.00 (68lbs)Available~
"If my sons did not want wars, there would be none." ~ Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
1589 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 12:13:17
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| Remove the old guys, and remove "In God We Trust". It should never have been placed on there. |
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theo
Penny Collector Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 14:47:18
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| Yes. Its important to remember that liberty is automatically bestowed to us by our creator; not granted to us by any government. Although I don't believe the government should promote any particular religion, I tend to believe that if government ceases to acknowledge a higher power, it begins to take on the role of that higher power. History teaches us that this is never a good thing. |
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Neckro
1000+ Penny Miser Member
Saudi Arabia
1589 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 15:10:18
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| Theo the same goes the other way around. The government thinks the higher power has placed them there, so they will do as they please because of that thought. Religion shouldn't govern no country. |
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brian0918
Penny Sorter Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 15:10:52
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| I don't think anything is stopping the government from taking on the role of the higher power. I also believe you're wrong about the source of individual rights, but this is not the right venue to discuss that. |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand |
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kieblera5
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
784 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 15:24:58
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Blessed is the nation who's God is Lord.
Keep it on there or the nation will reject God all together. I think it is the last inkling of hope for this nation. |
Democracy is being allowed to vote for the candidate you dislike least.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you mercilessly with experience.
"Any country where the central bank head is called 'Helicopter Ben,' you better own some gold," |
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brian0918
Penny Sorter Member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 15:40:04
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| That's unfortunate. |
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." -- Ayn Rand |
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Gr33nday43
Penny Hoarding Member
Uzbekistan
882 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 16:22:59
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| Even as a strong atheist, I think it should stay on our currency. This country was founded upon Christianity and I don't think it would be right to remove "In God We Trust" from the United States's bills and coins. I hope that made sense... |
Rand Paul for 2010 KY Senate Race - http://www.randpaul2010.com
HR 1207 - 313 Cosponsors 72% of house
S 604 - 30 Cosponsors 30% of Senate
Audit the Fed amendment has passed committee!
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world.
I hope you'll join with me, as we try to change it." -- His Excellency Barack Hussein 0bama, Head of Government,
Duce of Socialism, and Founder of the Empire.
Alcohol didn't cause the high crime rates of the '20s and '30s, Prohibition did. And drugs do not cause today's alarming crime rates, but drug prohibition does. – US District Judge James C. Paine, addressing the Federal Bar Association in Miami, November, 1991
http://coppermillions.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Gr33nday43 on 06/17/2009 17:15:03 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1603 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 16:33:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Gr33nday43
...This country was founded upon Christianity....
quote:
Originally posted by kieblera5
Very nice letter; however, one point is wrong. The US was not founded with Christian principles. The treaty of Tripoli in 1797 states that:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
I am a Christian; however, most of the founding fathers did not believe in Christianity exclusively, but rather in the belief that there is a God, in general.
Kieblera5 makes a good point, on another thread, that the United States was not founded on the Christian religion. |
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fb101
Moderator
USA
2226 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 16:48:47
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I want it to stay. The real reason is that the Government is oppressing religion. (See recent history, religious people are terrorists except the ones responsible for 9/11 who are now just criminals) It's also a constant reminder that our rights are endowed by our creator and unalienable. They are not whims and fancies of the state [comrades].
WHAT I WANT TO SEE GO AWAY IS THE PHRASE "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" which they've been telling everyone for years is in the constitution and IT IS NOT.
Amendment I
"Congress shall pass no law respecting (context: in order to accomplish) an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging freedom of speech, or of the press or of the press (does that include talk radio??) or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"
You know, I am amazed at the number of people who want to "live and let live" that only want that for the people they agree with. |
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theo
Penny Collector Member
USA
325 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 17:32:16
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[quote]Originally posted by brian0918
I don't think anything is stopping the government from taking on the role of the higher power.
I understand where you are coming from though I hope you are wrong.
I also believe you're wrong about the source of individual rights, but this is not the right venue to discuss that.
I only say that because our founders mentioned it in the Declaration of Independence. "Unalienable rights. . . endowed by our creator" Of course you are free to disagree with them as well.
Its just my opinion, but I think the mention of God on our money is a reminder that "our creator" transcends all human institutions including the government and the church.
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Edited by - theo on 06/17/2009 17:41:33 |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1661 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 18:57:18
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My personal .02 is that They meant what they wrote. "In God we Trust." Who said you are talking about the same God? People assume you are talking about the creator when they wrote it. What if thay weren't?
I saw a picture, maybe on this forum, of people gathered around trying to touch a statue, in what looked to be, well, worship. The statue was a golden calf, errr I mean bull, located in front of wall st. What if by that phrase they meant trust in the reserve banking system? Trust in money. People sure seem to worship it now days.
http://wonkette.com/403920/jesus-people-pray-that-false-idol-will-save-gods-economy
There check out that photo! |
Selling coppers- 1.4 + shipping or trade, PM me!! ~100.00 (68lbs)Available~
"If my sons did not want wars, there would be none." ~ Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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jonflyfish
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 19:13:41
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| I agree that "In God we trust" becomes individual and more universal. However, this is (fiat)currency we are talking about. Thus, perhaps the masons believed that "God" is the string puller i.e. FOMC chairman. Misinformation to play on the general public's (lemmings) "Faith in God" is pure manipulation to believe in and "trust" a system that systematically rapes them of their wealth. |
The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; second is war. Both bring a temporary (and false) prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunities. |
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redneck
Penny Hoarding Member
887 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 20:53:27
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quote:
Gresham Posted - 06/17/2009 : 09:27:13 All I know is that it appeared on the currency about the time they started putting politicians on the coins and taking the silver and gold out. If they really trusted God they would've left the silver and gold in, because God has some pretty strong things to say about watering down the money supply.
quote:
Kurr Posted - 06/17/2009 : 10:25:08 +2 doublegood Gresham!!
I prefer Liberty as a representation to Free Will. To "trust in God" is to use the gifts and tools he gave us. The first was Free Will i.e. Liberty.
She'll do just fine on my money.
quote:
Kurr Posted - 06/17/2009 : 18:57:18 My personal .02 is that They meant what they wrote. "In God we Trust." Who said you are talking about the same God? People assume you are talking about the creator when they wrote it. What if thay weren't?
I saw a picture, maybe on this forum, of people gathered around trying to touch a statue, in what looked to be, well, worship. The statue was a golden calf, errr I mean bull, located in front of wall st. What if by that phrase they meant trust in the reserve banking system? Trust in money. People sure seem to worship it now days.
quote:
jonflyfish Posted - 06/17/2009 : 19:13:41 I agree that "In God we trust" becomes individual and more universal. However, this is (fiat)currency we are talking about. Thus, perhaps the masons believed that "God" is the string puller i.e. FOMC chairman. Misinformation to play on the general public's (lemmings) "Faith in God" is pure manipulation to believe in and "trust" a system that systematically rapes them of their wealth.
Yes
Yes
Yes
&
Yes
11th commandant - The lord said to Mosses all monies made in the New World shall say "In God we trust" so as for the people to believe their currency can't fail, if, I God, is on the Almighty Dollar.
Oh,wait a minute.
There was only Ten Commandants.
Sooo,
it looks like it shouldn't be there.
If our Government believed in God, then it wouldn't be breaking the 8th,9th and 10th Commandants.
Thou shall not steal.(taking our money and giving it to their buddies)
Thou shall not bear false witness.(lying to us on how the money would be spent)
Thou shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
(the last one is for the IRS)
Oh,and the last is also in regards to what was done with GM, Chrysler,Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.
So "In God we trust"...???
>
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Ponce
Penny Collector Member
Cuba
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 21:20:47
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I don't believe in religion but I believe in "The Force" which comes by many names, saying "In God We Trust" is like saying "This is my Land" for to me the US was founded by those who believed in the power of one........sorry to see that a particular "choosen ones" are taking away from us all that which is America.
America, maybe some day you will wake up and come to the rescue of your childrens. |
"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"...Ponce |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1472 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 12:07:58
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"In God We Trust" didn't show up on our coins until the progressive movement showed up in the late 19th century. It is also not soon after that we starting parking dead Presidents on our coinage.
God and a President on the same side of a coin… It could kinda imply that government and god can be interchanged, or are one and the same. That is exactly how the progressives think… They truly feel they are superior to the masses. Not unlike Kings and Queens, who always claimed to have “royal divine blood”.
Our founding fathers didn't feel it needed to be there. I don't feel it should be there either.
That said, I'm not real worried about, and feel it is a non-issue at this point in time.
It says God. Not Allah, the Pope, Jesus, Buddha or any thing of the sort. A person’s God can be anything. It is about as neutral as it can get.
And in full disclosure, I am an atheist, been so since high school.
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Edited by - Bluegill on 06/20/2009 12:08:32 |
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Country
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1603 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 12:40:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluegill
"In God We Trust" didn't show up on our coins until the progressive movement showed up in the late 19th century.
You're a little off on your timeframe for the coins. "IN GOD WE TRUST" was prominently displayed on the 1864 Two-Cent coin.
For some history on this subject see the link below:
http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml
The founding fathers did not want any association with the royals. That's a given.
I guess the first President on a coin was Lincoln in 1909 to celebrate his birthdate. Our nation wanted to venerate Lincoln and wanted him on the most circulated coin. Same with Washington when he appeared on the quarter in 1932 to celebrate his birthdate. In fact, the 1932 quarter was really a Commemorative quarter. Jefferson appeared on the nickel in 1938. These men deserve the veneration of our nation.
Putting these great Americans on our coins is not a progressive conspriacy. It is the American people who wanted to celebrate these men; there was no hidden agenda. |
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smartinson
Penny Pincher Member
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 13:01:42
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| There is not the option of, IT DOESN'T MATTER. IN GOD WE TRUST has been on our currency and coins all of my life and really it has not effected me either way. But, as with everything else that doesn't directly effect me now may in the future. Prayer in school, our right to pledge allegience to our flag, our right to protect ourselves, our rights to smoke cigarettes, drink sugary cokes, eat fatty hamburgers, fries and junk food, drive a Hummer, have a cold beer or drink of what ever. What else will they decide we don't need. Already restrictions have been put on how we think, feel, speak, look and act. How long will it be before we turn to little zombies marching to the beat of that special song of choice. Personally, IN GOD WE TRUST is just another item that offends someone one so we must get rid of it. I just stay home, mind my own business, prepare for what might come and will deal with problems as they arise. I do PREFER that IN GOD WE TRUST stay as it is on our money just because it has always been there. Yes, Ma'am!!!!! |
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AGgressive Metal
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
789 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 15:22:49
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| It is better than having "In Man We Trust" or "In the State We Trust" or "In Money We Trust." I think the point of having it on the money, which people of ALL faiths and most athiests could agree on, is that there are principles that are higher than the State which guide us. "God" happens to be the "source" of those principles for the majority of people, but you can look at it as just a recognition that the State is not the absolute authority in the universe. Its a nice thing for the government to acknowledge when you think about it and compare our system to communism. |
And he that hath lyberte ought to kepe hit wel / For nothyng is better than lyberte / For lyberte shold not be wel sold for alle the gold and syluer of all the world.
-Caxton's edition of Aesop's Fables, 1484
http://www.randpaul2010.com/ |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
2785 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 19:37:53
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D G / Dei Gratia ("by the grace of God") is normally found on Canadian and British coins. Coins without this phrase are called "Godless".
Seperation of Church and State is one of the great founding principles of the United States. State sponsored religion usually quickly becomes the enemy of freedom (Catholic, Protestent, Muslum etc worldwide). Putting the religious leaders in charge of the country is equally dangerous (many examples). From the formation of the first governments in the Bible, there was a secular branch (judge, king) dealing with military/taxation/secular law and a priestly branch dealing with religious matters. When the leader starts playing god, it gets ugly.
Recognizing that the State is subject to a higher power - God - runs against the "divine right of kings" concept that the USA Founding Fathers rejected when they said "all men are equal". "In God We Trust" helps recognize that the country is free. |
"It had long since come to my attention that people of accomplishment rarely sat back and let things happen to them. They went out and happened to things." - Leonardo da Vinci
How to Hedge Against Inflation (NEW) ~~~How to Invest in Copper Bullion at A Steep Discount~~~How to Teach Your Children to Invest in Precious Metals (NEW) ~~~How to Follow Gresham's Law |
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In God We Trust?
