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snappy
Penny Pincher Member
USA
169 Posts |
 Posted - 10/23/2008 : 10:55:47
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Poll Question:
Will the copper in a copper cent be worth FV or less? If so will you keep hoarding?
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Edited by - snappy on 10/23/2008 11:05:05 |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1685 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 11:01:48
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| I voted #3. It will not be less than a cent, same way a nickel is 5 cents, or a dime is 10. I will keep collecting. |
Selling coppers- 1.4 + shipping or trade, PM me!! ~100.00 (68lbs)Available~
"If my sons did not want wars, there would be none." ~ Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife
A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears
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SANITARIUM_INMATE
Penny Pincher Member
160 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 11:25:32
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| #3 for me. It is in the eye of the beholder. |
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misteroman
Moderator
USA
1993 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 12:09:03
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| Don't think it will ever be less then a penny but even if it does I will keep hoarding as sooner or later it will be above face again without a doubt.If anything it is a good saving plan. |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
3446 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 15:12:10
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| 121% melt over face value today. The copper penny could drop below 100%. Nickels are currently at 50%. This is a huge crash of the base metal prices. Other than time it doesn't cost most hand sorters anything to hoard and when metal prices rebound their movement may be quick and the circulating copper penny supply may be low. |
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Coinvester
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 15:22:57
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In the UK coppers are less than FV at the moment, but we don't need much growth in the metals market to go over spot. Well worth hoarding now.
I've just started. Enjoying it...annoying my wife....hehe |
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
3446 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 15:26:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Coinvester
In the UK coppers are less than FV at the moment, but we don't need much growth in the metals market to go over spot. Well worth hoarding now.
I've just started. Enjoying it...annoying my wife....hehe
Annoying now perhaps, but not when you are a Copper Barron! |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for edification and entertainment purpose only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, legal, securtity or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved. |
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Bluegill
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1479 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 17:39:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardent Listener
121% melt over face value today. The copper penny could drop below 100%. Nickels are currently at 50%. This is a huge crash of the base metal prices. Other than time it doesn't cost most hand sorters anything to hoard and when metal prices rebound their movement may be quick and the circulating copper penny supply may be low.
I have to agree.
I think it is a given now that we have some serious inflation coming our way in the near future.
China is not going to withdraw back into the stone age just because the U.S. and to a lesser extent Europe can longer buy their junk. They have some money now, and have tasted western consumerism.
I think if they play their cards right they will adust to a more domestic consumption based economy and start booming again. The demand for all metals will go on the rise.
Of course I could be all wrong, I'm no expert. It's just a hunch...
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n/a
deleted
85 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 19:39:05
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| A penny will always be a penny but a copper penny's melt will soon be below its face value. But where else can you put your money now in something "hard" so that when you wake up tomorrow it will still have at least its face value? |
"The key to building wealth is to not lose money." - Warren Buffet |
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jadedragon
Administrator
Canada
2809 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 20:13:10
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A good portion of my Copper Hoard is 1982 - 1996 Canadian 1 Cents which reached a melt of US$0.0099147 today. Now with the current exchange rate, melt is still worth a touch over face, but maybe not much longer.
Further, our Canadian Ni coins melt dropped below face recently.
This is only a result of an artifically high US dollar, and overselling on EVERYTHING. I am sure inflation is a coming round the bend shortly, and demand will adjust metal values back to a reasonable level. I'm still buying and sorting away. |
"It had long since come to my attention that people of accomplishment rarely sat back and let things happen to them. They went out and happened to things." - Leonardo da Vinci
How to Hedge Against Inflation (NEW) ~~~How to Invest in Copper Bullion at A Steep Discount~~~How to Teach Your Children to Invest in Precious Metals (NEW) ~~~How to Follow Gresham's Law |
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NotABigDeal
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
3250 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 20:20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by legacypac
A good portion of my Copper Hoard is 1982 - 1996 Canadian 1 Cents which reached a melt of US$0.0099147 today. Now with the current exchange rate, melt is still worth a touch over face, but maybe not much longer.
Further, our Canadian Ni coins melt dropped below face recently.
This is only a result of an artifically high US dollar, and overselling on EVERYTHING. I am sure inflation is a coming round the bend shortly, and demand will adjust metal values back to a reasonable level. I'm still buying and sorting away.
I hear that.
Deal |
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.
If you want peace, prepare for war. |
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TonyD
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 20:42:55
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Things I keep in mind.
1. The prices of everything (stocks, metals, etc) is on a rollercoaster.
2. Copper in the US money supply decreases daily, for various reasons.
3. The most effective time to sort is now, while sorting percentages are still generally yield 20-30% copper.
4. Be patient, get on top of a nice pile of copper, and have a plan to sell when the next run-up occurs. |
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 21:08:29
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At this point it looks like copper prices will keep falling until the dollar collapses. The global economy is seizing up...there does not seem to be a chance now that the problems will be contained and that copper demand will be held up by China.
If/when the currency collapse comes, copper pennies will be better than FIAT, but how they will do compared to other stuff requires some serious thought.
Holding coins below face when other things can be bought at current sale prices that will perform just as well or better during hyper-inflation does not make much sense to me.
My nickels for example did their job and gave me some small protection from the current deflation. Now that we have deflated and nickels are worth less than face, it time or soon will be time to cash them in and buy something that is deeply on sale.
Sell nickels now and buy scrap nickel if you want nickel and ditto for pennies if they go below face. IMHO |
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TonyD
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 22:26:17
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
Holding coins below face when other things can be bought at current sale prices that will perform just as well or better during hyper-inflation does not make much sense to me.
Sell nickels now and buy scrap nickel if you want nickel and ditto for pennies if they go below face. IMHO
This is very interesting, and worth some thought. There are a lot of opportunities to get things at sale prices lately. However, many sale priced investments will incur further losses, and some will evaporate completely. Can you offer some suggestions for sale priced investments that are comprably safe as US penny copper?
You make a very good point, and I hope to gain from your further explanation.
-t |
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TonyD
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 22:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by TonyD
This is very interesting, and worth some thought. There are a lot of opportunities to get things at sale prices lately. However, many sale priced investments will incur further losses, and some will evaporate completely. Can you offer some suggestions for sale priced investments that are comprably safe as US penny copper?
As a quick example: if you purchase scrap copper at a set price, and the price continues to fall, you risk more losses than if your copper holdings were in US pennies - which would incur NO losses since they would never be worth less than face value.
Copper would have to drop pretty low (and hold steady for more than a few heartbeats) in order justify the potential loss if prices would continue to drop, maybe if the price of copper became 50-60% of penny face value. |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 00:15:48
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I will keep hoarding no matter what the price of copper is. The time to hoard is now!  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Let me see if I understand this? If you cross the North Korean border illegally, you get 12 years hard labor; the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely. If you cross the US border illegally, you get a driver’s license, a social security card, welfare, food stamps, free health care!
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 06:32:56
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quote:
As a quick example: if you purchase scrap copper at a set price, and the price continues to fall, you risk more losses than if your copper holdings were in US pennies - which would incur NO losses since they would never be worth less than face value.
That is a very good point and I conceed that pennies remain about the safest store of value around. However, if you believe as I do that the current deflation will be followed by high inflation, taking advantage of the deflation is worth considering.
Lets say for a minute that pennies went to half face:
1. convert your pennies into another coin that is worth close to melt value (if silver drops to $5.00, 40% halves will be very protected on the downside by their face value)
2. take a pound of pennies (copper) and using them to buy 1 1/2 pounds of copper
3. platinum/palladium become very tempting when/if platinum drops below gold
4. take you pennies and buy a years worth of food while it is cheap (nothing will be more needed in a hyper-inflation scenario and if we don't inflate you can still eat the food assuming that you bought with care)
5. If you are a gambler, the stock market will be full of bargains. Not all companies are crap, but during deflation they all get sold. Look for high dividend yields, no debt, and solid depression proof earnings.
6. Land rarely goes to 0 and eventually goes back up and can be useful while you are waiting. Start tracking vacant land prices now. The only exception would be a low probably event like an ethnic cleansing or war that wipes out your ownership.
7. Convert your "over valued" currency (pennies) into a different currency or currencies. Swiss? Canadian? Other?
Anyhow, don't get me wrong, I am still hanging on tight to my penny hoard and it will take maybe 40% below face and something else cheap dangling infront of my face in order to tempt me into cashing out. |
Edited by - horgad on 10/24/2008 06:38:07 |
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TonyD
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 13:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
3. platinum/palladium become very tempting when/if platinum drops below gold
What are the possible scenarios that would cause this?
quote:
Originally posted by horgad
5. If you are a gambler, the stock market will be full of bargains. Not all companies are crap, but during deflation they all get sold. Look for high dividend yields, no debt, and solid depression proof earnings.
A major point. It's unusual that there are several overseas companies on the Nasdaq that have a market cap value less than their net assets. The "emotion tax" is beating a lot of quality investments to a pulp. Companies at the top of their sector, and aquisition/merger targets are good places to start research for opportunities.
Dividends are good too, but there are a lot of companies who are reexamining their yields. Past yields aren't good indicators of future yields in the short term. In addition, there are companies (drug companies especially) that post a big yield in order to mitigate the slow devaluation of the stock.
Good points Hograd. Keep in mind my perspective is from someone who started a week ago, and is closing in on his first 5,000 bag. Sounds like you're in a whole different league. :-)
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 15:50:39
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"What are the possible scenarios that would cause this?"
It actually has happened several times in the past. Platinum/platinum get kicked in long recessions or depressions becasue they are industrial metals while gold stays relatively strong because it is hoarded as a safe haven. Eventually the economic slow down ends and platinum regains its price advantage over gold.
Buying gold when it was cheap and there were no signs of economic problems and selling it and buying platinum in the middle of bad times, would have made a person very wealthy over the last 50 years...just have to be very patient because of the long cycles.
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Ardent Listener
Administrator
USA
3446 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 18:57:36
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| I posted this http://www.silverinstitute.org/price/19811990.php about silver in a recession a while back and took some flack on another site as to why it couldn't tank in a recession this time around. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinons, but industrial metals including industrial precious metals don't usually do well in recessions. Now if the money supply is inflated enough to try to get us out of a recession then that's another story. |
Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for edification and entertainment purpose only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, legal, securtity or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved. |
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TonyD
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 19:37:23
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quote:
Originally posted by horgad
Buying gold when it was cheap and there were no signs of economic problems and selling it and buying platinum in the middle of bad times, would have made a person very wealthy over the last 50 years...just have to be very patient because of the long cycles.
Anyone know where to find some comparitive charts illustrating this?
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Economist
Penny Sorter Member
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 23:48:35
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| Very wise comments Horgad; I generally agree. |
"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." -Ron Paul, from _The Revolution: A Manifesto_ |
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snappy
Penny Pincher Member
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2008 : 21:10:17
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| well today the copper in a copper cent is worth less then a cent... Sad day for us hoarders. |
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Flbandit
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
567 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 07:50:47
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| Remember, copper pennies are not made anymore. Bulk wheats are worth 3-4 cents each. I think they'll always have at least a small premium over zinc. |
Are you throwing that out? |
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PennehChaos.
Penny Collector Member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 14:21:24
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quote:
Originally posted by snappy
well today the copper in a copper cent is worth less then a cent... Sad day for us hoarders.
Well, if anybody wants to get out and sell their pennies under face, I'll buy all you got! |
Considering Verizon Business service? Perhaps you'd like to consider a nice drain cleaner enema instead? |
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knibloe
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
771 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 16:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by snappy
well today the copper in a copper cent is worth less then a cent... Sad day for us hoarders.
Actually, I see it as a good day for us. The short term price drop will discourage short sighted people from entering the market. This will give us a longer window of opportunity to sort our share. |
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copper prices
