| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
649 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2008 : 14:40:29
|
I'm testing the feasibility of an aluminum cent. I'll assume that the weight of the new cent would equal that of the current zinc cent. That's what the Mint intended to do back in 1974.
some starting info:
* mass of zinc US cent = 2.50 g
* density of aluminum = 2.7 g/cm^3
determining price of aluminum:
* spot price of aluminum = Approx. USD$1.32/lb (Kitco.com 7/31/08)
* conversion factor 453.6 g/lb
* spot price of aluminum = Approx. USD$0.00291/g
determining volume of current cent:
* diameter = 19.05 mm = 1.905 cm
* thickness = 1.55 mm = 0.155 cm
* volume = pi * R^2 * t = pi * D^2 * t / 4
* volume = 3.14159 * (1.905^2) * 0.155 / 4 = 0.442 cm^3
Let's assume that 10% of the volume is reduced by stamping the pattern into the planchet
* volume = 0.90 * 0.442 = 0.398 cm^3
finding weight of same volume of aluminum:
* volume = 0.398 cm^3
* mass = volume / density = 0.398 / 2.7 = 1.074 g
This is comparable in size and weight to the current Japanese 1 yen coin, which has been minted since 1955.
melt value of aluminum cent (neglecting trace aluminum alloy metals):
* mass = 1.074 g
* melt value = mass / spot price = 1.074 / 00291 = $0.00312 = 0.312 cents
* 31.2% of face
At the time of this writing, Coinflation.com estimates that the zinc cent has a melt value of 0.511 cents, or 51.1% of face value. Note that the aluminum cent's melt value is only 20% less than the zinc cent.
What spot price would make the above hypothetical aluminum cent have equivalent melt and face value?
* melt value = $0.01
* mass = 1.074 g
* spot price = $0.01/1.074g = $0.009315/g = $4.225/lb
* relation to current spot price = 4.225/1.32 = 320%
Thus the spot price of aluminum would have to triple before the aluminum cent would have a melt premium over face. Note that in the summer of 2007, the spot price of zinc and nickel more tripled over their summer 2004 values, while copper was just under triple value, and silver only doubled in value.
What if the Mint decided to break with tradition and keep the weight of the aluminum cent equivalent to the current zinc cent? How big might the new coin be?
* mass = 2.50 g
* volume = mass / density = 2.50 / 2.70 = 0.926 cm^3
* assume thickness = 3.0 mm = 0.30 cm
* diameter = [(4 * volume) / (pi * t)] ^ 0.5
* diameter = [(4 * 0.926) / (3.14159 * 0.30)] ^ 0.5 = 39.3 mm = 3.93 cm
* melt value = 2.5 g * $0.00291/g = $0.0073 = 73% of face value
Compare that size (39.3 mm dia., 3 mm thick) to other coins:
* 1936 Great Britain 1 penny (31 mm dia.)
* 1971 US Eisenhower dollar (38.1 mm dia., 2.58 mm thick)
* 1948 Hungary 20 forint (40 mm dia., 2.8 mm thick)
Very comparable to an Ike dollar.
|
RUNNING TOTAL
---------------------------------------
16857 zincs (1982-2008) 75.4%
5346 coppers (1959-1982) 23.9%
110 wheats (1920-1958)
50 Canadian (1959-2007)
1 dime (2004)
1 foreign (2005)
Sorting Map: http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=68719599394
2008 First Finds: http://realcent.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~1716.asp
Wanna take money away from the Fed? Spend dollar coins!
Listening is the linchpin of democracy. |
Edited by - Cerulean on 08/01/2008 08:01:25 |
|
|
swusc
Penny Collector Member
490 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2008 : 15:19:44
|
The mint isn't going to be able to produce the cent at less than face value until they re evaluate the way they apply overhead. Overhead per coin is around a 1 cent so making them out of air is still going to be above face.
They need to do away with producing the cent and nickel. They have little purchasing power. Then let people and or the mint pull them to melt. Just return the metal to a more productive form bc having nickels and cents is somewhat pointless.
Even if everything was rounded up to 10 cents... The increase would be at most 9 cents a transaction, and most American average three cash transaction a day. So that is around $90 a year. If they actually rounded up or down, then the net effect would be close to zero. A $90 increase in prices would be nothing to the inflation rate. It might get people to bring out all those cent jars to stop the rounding for atleast a little while.
Due to the remaining 10/25 cent pieces, it might make sense to have a half dime with the current clad mix that could be produced for around 3 cents a piece.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
 |
|
|
Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
649 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 07:56:58
|
Here's my Master Plan...
Scrap all current coins. It hurts to say this as a coin collector, but sometimes a clean slate is necessary.
Make the dime the smallest subdivision of the dollar, with 10 dimes to the dollar.
Introduce a new set of coins, being as follows:
1 dime, made of bronze, size of current dime, but with smooth edge.
2 dimes, made of bronze, size of current penny, but with reeded or multi-sided edge for distinction.
5 dimes, made of copper-nickel, size of current 5cent coin, with smooth edge.
1 dollar, made of copper-nickel, size of current quarter, with reeded or multi-sided edge.
2 dollars, size and composition of current dollar, with smooth edge.
5 dollars, size of current half dollar, composition of above 2 dollar coin, with reeded or multi-sided edge.
This reuses the sizes of current coins, so all rolls and machines would only have to adjust the value of coins of each size, rather than requiring the retooling of all coin equipment. Nothing is magnetic or or close to melt value. Coin diameter increases with value. Eliminate all bills smaller than $10. |
RUNNING TOTAL
---------------------------------------
16857 zincs (1982-2008) 75.4%
5346 coppers (1959-1982) 23.9%
110 wheats (1920-1958)
50 Canadian (1959-2007)
1 dime (2004)
1 foreign (2005)
Sorting Map: http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=68719599394
2008 First Finds: http://realcent.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~1716.asp
Wanna take money away from the Fed? Spend dollar coins!
Listening is the linchpin of democracy. |
Edited by - Cerulean on 08/01/2008 07:59:45 |
|
|
|
redneck
Penny Collector Member
314 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 08:18:09
|
What are the Strippers going to do...???
lol... |
|
|
|
Bluegill
Penny Collector Member
USA
439 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 11:20:21
|
They gladly take dollar coins. They love the Ikes. Don't ask how I know that... 
|
“I’m fully diversified. I’ve got some under the mattress, some under the floor boards, some in the backyard.”
"Give me control over a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." – Anselm Rothschild
|
|
|
|
Tourney64
Penny Hoarding Member
USA
713 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 11:48:48
|
Too many dollar tucked coins would remove what little is left on.
Addition to the master plan - Add a Copper bullion coin similar to the Silver Eagles. |
|
|
|
pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2034 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 19:20:13
|
I doubt the US Government is going to do away with either the penny or nickel any time soon since it would admit to its citizens and to the world that inflation in the US is pushing up the price of everything, and what government (especially this one) wants to admit the truth on inflation?
While the cost of making pennies is over one cent to produce a one cent coin, the mint makes up for it in seniorage from dimes, quarters, halves and dollar coins. There is also the zinc mining interests that would fight to save the penny from being eliminated (and the demand for their metal being eliminated in the process.)
Anybody know one of the reasons we ended up with a cupronickel five cent coin? One reason was the special interest group way back in the 1860's. The nickel miners were looking for an outlet for their product and convinced Congress to produce a cupronickel coin to officially deter the hoarding of coins during the Civil War (yeah-right-whatever) and to also, as a minor effect, allow the nickel miners somewhere to sell their product.
Not much has changed in the world of politics now has it? |
|
|
|
swusc
Penny Collector Member
490 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2008 : 17:52:25
|
That is true about the nickel interest having the 3 cent and 5 cent nickel created when there was already a 3 cent and 5 cent silver piece. There was a lot of three cent paper money that the government could use the 3 cent nickels to replace. It took around 130-140 years, but inflation has made the metal content worth more than face.
The best case for the mint is to just stop making them. Let the ones already minted serve the needs of transactions. If everyone would just turn in their coin jars, then we would have enough. There has to be 200 billion or so zinc cents out there right now. That is like 600 zinc cents for every person in the U.S.
-SWUSC |
`Everybody is ignorant. Only on different subjects.' Will Rogers
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard." Alan Greenspan, 1966. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Musing on the aluminum US cent
