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Ardent Listener
Administrator


USA
4841 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  21:25:33  Show Profile Send Ardent Listener a Private Message
It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt
A lot of people are very upset about the rapidly increasing U.S. national debt these days and they are demanding a solution. What they don't realize is that there simply is not a solution under the current U.S. financial system. It is now mathematically impossible for the U.S. government to pay off the U.S. national debt. You see, the truth is that the U.S. government now owes more dollars than actually exist. If the U.S. government went out today and took every single penny from every single American bank, business and taxpayer, they still would not be able to pay off the national debt. And if they did that, obviously American society would stop functioning because nobody would have any money to buy or sell anything.

And the U.S. government would still be massively in debt.

So why doesn't the U.S. government just fire up the printing presses and print a bunch of money to pay off the debt?

Well, for one very simple reason.

That is not the way our system works.

You see, for more dollars to enter the system, the U.S. government has to go into more debt.

The U.S. government does not issue U.S. currency - the Federal Reserve does.

The Federal Reserve is a private bank owned and operated for profit by a very powerful group of elite international bankers.

If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says "Federal Reserve Note" at the top.

It belongs to the Federal Reserve.

The U.S. government cannot simply go out and create new money whenever it wants under our current system.

Instead, it must get it from the Federal Reserve.

So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes.

The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds. The Federal Reserve either sells these U.S. Treasury bonds or they keep the bonds for themselves (which happens a lot these days).

So that is how the U.S. government gets more green pieces of paper called "U.S. dollars" to put into circulation. But by doing so, they get themselves into even more debt which they will owe even more interest on.

So every time the U.S. government does this, the national debt gets even bigger and the interest on that debt gets even bigger.

Are you starting to get the picture?

As you read this, the U.S. national debt is approximately 12 trillion dollars, although it is going up so rapidly that it is really hard to pin down an exact figure.

So how much money actually exists in the United States today?

Well, there are several ways to measure this.

The "M0" money supply is the total of all physical bills and currency, plus the money on hand in bank vaults and all of the deposits those banks have at reserve banks. As of mid-2009, the Federal Reserve said that this amount was about 908 billion dollars.

The "M1" money supply includes all of the currency in the "M0" money supply, along with all of the money held in checking accounts and other checkable accounts at banks, as well as all money contained in travelers' checks. According to the Federal Reserve, this totaled approximately 1.7 trillion dollars in December 2009, but not all of this money actually "exists" as we will see in a moment.

The "M2" money supply includes everything in the "M1" money supply plus most other savings accounts, money market accounts, retail money market mutual funds, and small denomination time deposits (certificates of deposit of under $100,000). According to the Federal Reserve, this totaled approximately 8.5 trillion dollars in December 2009, but once again, not all of this money actually "exists" as we will see in a moment.

The "M3" money supply includes everything in the "M2" money supply plus all other CDs (large time deposits and institutional money market mutual fund balances), deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements. The Federal Reserve does not keep track of M3 anymore, but according to ShadowStats.com it is currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 trillion dollars. But again, not all of this "money" actually "exists" either.

So why doesn't it exist?

It is because our financial system is based on something called fractional reserve banking.

When you go over to your local bank and deposit $100, they do not keep your $100 in the bank. Instead, they keep only a small fraction of your money there at the bank and they lend out the rest to someone else. Then, if that person deposits the money that was just borrowed at the same bank, that bank can loan out most of that money once again. In this way, the amount of "money" quickly gets multiplied. But in reality, only $100 actually exists. The system works because we do not all run down to the bank and demand all of our money at the same time.

According to the New York Federal Reserve Bank, fractional reserve banking can be explained this way....

"If the reserve requirement is 10%, for example, a bank that receives a $100 deposit may lend out $90 of that deposit. If the borrower then writes a check to someone who deposits the $90, the bank receiving that deposit can lend out $81. As the process continues, the banking system can expand the initial deposit of $100 into a maximum of $1,000 of money ($100+$90+81+$72.90+...=$1,000)."

So much of the "money" out there today is basically made up out of thin air.

In fact, most banks have no reserve requirements at all on savings deposits, CDs and certain kinds of money market accounts. Primarily, reserve requirements apply only to "transactions deposits" – essentially checking accounts.

The truth is that banks are freer today to dramatically "multiply" the amounts deposited with them than ever before. But all of this "multiplied" money is only on paper - it doesn't actually exist.

The point is that the broadest measures of the money supply (M2 and M3) vastly overstate how much "real money" actually exists in the system.

So if the U.S. government went out today and demanded every single dollar from all banks, businesses and individuals in the United States it would not be able to collect 14 trillion dollars (M3) or even 8.5 trillion dollars (M2) because those amounts are based on fractional reserve banking.

So the bottom line is this....

#1) If all money owned by all American banks, businesses and individuals was gathered up today and sent to the U.S. government, there would not be enough to pay off the U.S. national debt.

#2) The only way to create more money is to go into even more debt which makes the problem even worse.

You see, this is what the whole Federal Reserve System was designed to do. It was designed to slowly drain the massive wealth of the American people and transfer it to the elite international bankers.

It is a game that is designed so that the U.S. government cannot win. As soon as they create more money by borrowing it, the U.S. government owes more than what was created because of interest.

If you owe more money than ever was created you can never pay it back.

That means perpetual debt for as long as the system exists.

It is a system designed to force the U.S. government into ever-increasing amounts of debt because there is no escape.

We could solve this problem by shutting down the Federal Reserve and restoring the power to issue U.S. currency to the U.S. Congress (which is what the U.S. Constitution calls for). But the politicians in Washington D.C. are not about to do that.

So unless you are willing to fundamentally change the current system, you might as well quit complaining about the U.S. national debt because it is now mathematically impossible to pay it off.

***UPDATE***

It has been suggested that the same dollar can be used to pay off debt over and over - this is theoretically true as long as the dollar remains in the system.

For example, if the U.S. government gives China a dollar to pay off a debt, there is a good chance that the U.S. government will be able to acquire that dollar again and use it to pay off another debt.

However, this is not true when debt is retired with the Federal Reserve. In that case, money is actually removed from the system. In fact, because of the "money multiplier", when debt is retired with the Federal Reserve it can remove ten times that amount of money (and actually more, but let's not get too technical) from the system.

You see, fractional reserve banking works both ways. When $100 is introduced into the system, it can theoretically create $1000 as the example in the article above demonstrates. However, when that $100 is removed, it can have the opposite impact.

And considering the fact that the Federal Reserve "purchased" the vast majority of new U.S. government debt last year, we have got a real mess on our hands.

Even if a way could be figured out how to pay off all the debt we owe to foreign nations (such as China, Japan, etc.) it would still be mathematically impossible to pay off the debt that we owe to the Federal Reserve which is exploding so fast that it is hard to even keep track of.

Of course we could repudiate that debt and shut down the Federal Reserve, but very few in Washington D.C. have any interest in doing that.

It has also been suggested that instead of just using dollars to pay off the U.S. national debt, we could use the assets of the U.S. government to pay it off.

That is rather extreme, but let us consider that for a moment.

That total value of all physical assets in the United States, both publicly and privately owned, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 to 50 trillion dollars. Of course the idea of the U.S. government "owning" every single asset of the American people is repugnant to our entire way of life, but let's assume that for a moment.

According to the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government, which is an official United States government report, the total liabilities of the United States government, including future social security and medicare payments that the U.S. government is already committed to pay out, now exceed 65 TRILLION dollars. This amount is more than the entire GDP of the whole world.

In fact, there are other authors who have written that the actual figure for the future liabilities of the U.S. government should be much higher, but let's be conservative and go with 65 trillion for now.

So, if the U.S. government took control of all physical assets in the United States and sold them off, it could not even make enough money to pay for everything that the U.S. government is already on the hook for.

Ouch.

If you have not read the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government, you really should. Actually the 2009 report should be available very soon if it isn't already. If anyone knows if it is available, please let us know.

The truth is that the U.S. government is in much bigger financial trouble than we have been led to believe.

For example, according to the report (which remember is an official U.S. government report) the real U.S. budget deficit for 2008 was not 455 billion dollars. It was actually 5.1 trillion dollars.

So why the difference?

The CBO's 455 billion figure is based on cash accounting, while the 5.1 trillion figure in the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government is based on GAAP accounting. GAAP accounting is what is used by all the major firms on Wall Street and it is regarded as a much more accurate reflection of financial reality.

So needless to say, the United States is in a financial mess of unprecedented magnitude.

So what should we do? Does anyone have any suggestions?

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dakota1955
1000+ Penny Miser Member



2212 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  21:29:33  Show Profile  Send dakota1955 a Yahoo! Message Send dakota1955 a Private Message
It's just not the United States that in a mess
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johnbrickner
Penny Pincher Member



154 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  21:49:17  Show Profile Send johnbrickner a Private Message
Where to start? There are a number of people who have wealth (even just some) that are flat out leaving the US, dumping their citizenship, and/or getting a 2nd citizenship, ivesting and banking "offshore" and moving to places where they can protect themselves and (hide) their money safely. I don't have wealth but, getting out while you can doesn't look like all that bad of an idea to me.

"I Killed the Bank" from the tombstone of Andrew Jackson
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Ardent Listener
Administrator



USA
4841 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  22:03:55  Show Profile Send Ardent Listener a Private Message
We must change the banking system. The entire world is under the same one.


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All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.


Think positive.
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billo
Penny Collector Member



293 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2010 :  05:04:07  Show Profile Send billo a Private Message
That's interesting. Scary. Still, with a 180 change in DC I think we could see good results. Stopping the deficit is step one.

That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.

http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/
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Nickelless
Administrator



USA
5580 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2010 :  12:43:02  Show Profile Send Nickelless a Private Message
Stopping the deficit is just a cosmetic detail at this point. We SHOULD stop the deficit, but the more important thing to do, and the only thing that makes sense at this point, is to prepare our country for a hard landing instead of an all-out crash-and-burn. Any suggestions?


Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively

---------------

Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html

Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp
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billo
Penny Collector Member



293 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  19:32:17  Show Profile Send billo a Private Message
Nickel, I was thinking about suggestions but I don't know, right now I'm too busy trying to beat the economy for personal income to study as much on the national solutions as I wish I could. But...we need much better leaders. America has had a real drought of good leadership for decades and a plague of bad ones. Also, we need much more local involvement. 535 people representing 300 million doesn't work well. Get involved locally, change from the bottom up!

That's not a dollar, mate...THIS is a dollar.

http://www.sendcongressapinkslip.com/
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Nickelless
Administrator



USA
5580 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  19:34:43  Show Profile Send Nickelless a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by billo

535 people representing 300 million doesn't work well.

That's because we don't have that many representing us!


Visit my new preparedness site: Preparedness.cc/SurvivalPrep.net
--Latest article: Stocking up on spices to keep food preps lively

---------------

Be prepared...and prepared to help: http://www.survivalblog.com/charity.html

Are you ready spiritually for hard times? http://www.jesusfreak.com/rapture.asp
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smalltimeopn
Penny Sorter Member



USA
54 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  19:48:26  Show Profile Send smalltimeopn a Private Message
This might be a dumb question, but what if everything was devalued to include our money?

An example is the current housing market - a $250K house 2.5 years ago might be bought for $200K or less today.
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member



2906 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  20:24:41  Show Profile Send Kurr a Private Message
Please excuse me raising my voice.

WE HAVE NO MONEY TO DE_VALUE. 14 TRILLION IN DEBT MEANS NO MONEY IN SYSTEM. WE HAVE HOCKED EVERYTHING WE OWN AND ARE SELLING BLOOD TO STAY ALIVE.

Again, my apologies.

quote:
Modern Money Mechanics

You must be logged in to see this link.

This complete booklet is was originally produced and distributed free by:
Public Information Center
Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago



The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?

KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html

A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears


Edited by - Kurr on 02/07/2010 20:27:56
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smalltimeopn
Penny Sorter Member



USA
54 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  20:33:43  Show Profile Send smalltimeopn a Private Message
No apology necessary...

This is fundamentally true, but the masses still trust the FRN's which keeps the whole system afloat...
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member



2906 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  20:41:43  Show Profile Send Kurr a Private Message
If you take any premise, and start with a slightly flawed assumption, even if you use perfect logic, you will still arrive at a flawed, unrealistic judgment.

If belief in the system is necessary, then it is necessary. But believe in and see the system as it is, not a fairy tale or assumption .


The silver [is] mine, and the gold [is] mine, saith the LORD of hosts. Hag 2:8 [/b]
He created it. He controls it. He gave it to us for His use. Why did we turn from sound scriptural currency that PROTECTS us?

KJV Bible w/ Strong's Concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
The book of The Hundreds: http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/boh/bookOfTheHundreds_v4.1.pdf
The Two Republics: http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_REPUBLICS.pdf
Good reading: http://ecclesia.org/truth/government.html

A number of people are educated beyond, sometimes way beyond, their intelligence. - Tenbears

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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member



1273 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  21:49:58  Show Profile Send redneck a Private Message

Ardent posted a article after this one that may answer the question of
it being Mathematically possible To trim the U.S. Debt

(Note I did not say Pay Off U.S. Debt)


Feds Strategy

You must be logged in to see this link.



What you have to remember is this...


They make the rules

so therefore

they can change the rules.


They are nearly in total control.


What will happen to the Dollar if Greece, Spain etc. etc. go into default and the EU refuses to bail them out, will remain to be seen.(it may strengthen)

I would not underestimate these people, they did not get where they are by being stupid or foolish.

They have a plan, but I'm sure it doesn't include you and me...

>

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jadedragon
Administrator



Canada
3788 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  22:41:19  Show Profile Send jadedragon a Private Message
The system is Canada is somewhat different. The Bank of Canada influences money supply but not to the extent the FED does in the US. The Canadian Government was reducing the National Debt until they were pretty much forced into deficit spending by the US induced economic crisis.

Canada's Money Supply (You must be logged in to see this link.)
SOME PEOPLE ASK WHY the Bank of Canada can't directly increase or decrease the money supply at will, since it regulates the supply of paper currency in circulation.

The answer is that the bank notes issued by the Bank represent only a small portion of all the money circulating in the economy at any one time. The bulk of the money supply consists of deposits that the public holds at financial institutions. The amount of money in circulation can be measured in a number of ways. Some of these different measures, which are called monetary aggregates, are described below.

Narrow measures of money

M1+ (gross): Currency outside banks plus all chequable deposits held at chartered banks, trust and mortgage loan companies, credit unions and caisses populaires (excluding deposits of these institutions); plus continuity adjustments (to "smooth" a time series when there are structural breaks).

M1++ (gross): M1+ (gross) plus all non-chequable deposits (other than fixed-term deposits) held at chartered banks, trust and mortgage loan companies, credit unions and caisses populaires; less interbank deposits; plus continuity adjustments.
Broad measures of money

M2 (gross): Currency outside banks plus bank personal deposits, bank non-personal demand and notice deposits; less interbank deposits; plus continuity adjustments.

M3 (gross):

M2 (gross) plus bank non-personal term deposits and foreign-currency deposits of residents; less interbank deposits; plus continuity adjustments.

M2+ (gross): M2 (gross) plus deposits at trust and mortgage loan companies and at government savings institutions; deposits and shares at credit unions and caisses populaires; life insurance company individual annuities; money market mutual funds; plus continuity adjustments and other adjustments (see "Notes to the tables," E1.)

M2++ (gross): M2+(gross) plus Canada Savings Bonds and other retail debt instruments; plus non-money market mutual funds.
Interest rates influence money supply
Commercial banks and other financial institutions provide most of the assets used as money through loans made to individuals and businesses. In that sense, financial institutions create, or can create money.

The Bank of Canada manages the rate of money growth indirectly through its influence on short-term interest rates, or through the reserves provided to large deposit-taking institutions. When short-term interest rates change, they tend to carry other interest rates - such as mortgage rates and other lending rates from commercial banks - along with them. When interest rates rise, consumers and businesses tend to hold less money, to borrow less, and to pay back existing loans. The result is a slowing in the growth of M1+ and in the other broader monetary aggregates.
Bank monitors money supply growth

The Bank monitors several different indicators to ensure that it achieves its inflation target. Among these indicators, monetary aggregates have been found to provide useful information about changes in the economy.
The bank's economic research indicates that the growth of M1+ provides useful information on the future level of production in the economy. The growth of the broader monetary aggregates is a leading indicator of the rate of inflation.
The objective of the Bank of Canada's monetary policy is to support a level of spending on Canadian goods and services that is consistent with the Bank's goal of price stability, defined as keeping inflation within the inflation-control target range. By monitoring the rate at which the supply of money and credit is growing, along with other indicators, the Bank seeks to ensure that total spending on goods and services in the economy is consistent with achieving that goal.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog
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redneck
1000+ Penny Miser Member



1273 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2010 :  07:37:38  Show Profile Send redneck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by redneck


Ardent posted a article after this one that may answer the question of
it being Mathematically possible To trim the U.S. Debt

(Note I did not say Pay Off U.S. Debt)


Feds Strategy

You must be logged in to see this link.



What you have to remember is this...


They make the rules

so therefore

they can change the rules.



They are nearly in total control.


What will happen to the Dollar if Greece, Spain etc. etc. go into default and the EU refuses to bail them out, will remain to be seen.(it may strengthen)

I would not underestimate these people, they did not get where they are by being stupid or foolish.

They have a plan, but I'm sure it doesn't include you and me...

>





(In regards to my highlighted statement.)

This is why we need transparency of the FED. Without it,we have no way of knowing whether or not, or to what extent they are manipulating and or stealing the wealth from the people.

I think everyone should read Ardents article he posted "Feds Strategy". If true, it shows manipulation on a grand scale.



So,

we need a transparent Fed, but, will we get a transparent Fed ?


Well......


I'm not going to hold my breath...


This and many more reasons are why we should

End the Fed.....

Period.

>

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tunylune
New Member



USA
20 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2010 :  17:07:38  Show Profile Send tunylune a Private Message
Hi, I'm new here and can see you are a bunch of thoughtful guy's. This is good. As for the topic I would like to answer the question of what we "can do" in a format of what we "really" can do. What we, as the people have the "power to do". Under Article V of the Constitution "We The People" have the right to call an Article V Convention to Amend the Constitution. This is the only way we can restore our Republic. Two representatives from each state would attend the Convention and make recommendations to Amend the Constitution.

Recommendations could be made to:

Repeal the 10th amendment and give the States Rights back to the States.
Repeal the 16th Amendment and shut down the I.R.S.
Create a 4% consumer tax to fund the Federal Govt.
Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1911 and do away with the Fed. This law is unconstitutional anyway. The Constitution calls for the U.S. Treasury to mint our Coin of Copper, silver, and Gold.
Close down the 300 plus U.S. military bases that are not on our soil and bring our sons and daughters home. It is not our responsibility nor our business to police the world.
Deploy the troops we bring home on our borders.
Aggressively enforce our immigration laws.
Place term limits on congress
Repeal the 17th amendment and revert to congressmen being appointed by the States Legislatures. This would eliminate lobbying in Washington and would eliminate congressional funding of elections.
Eliminate Labor Unions in Public sector jobs.
Cut salaries to Congress and all public service jobs. Eliminate Retirement and Medical benefits to Congress. Congress is supposed to be a part time job anyway.
Cut Federal spending by 50%. We did this in the crash of 1920. Along with sweeping tax cuts we came out of that recession in 18 months. Unemployment was 20% at the time and the stock market was harder hit than this crash. The results of the cuts and tax cuts was the boom period of the roaring 20's. This was the largest increase in middle class America in our history.
Repeal all Free Trade Acts with all other countries.
Tax all imported goods. Do this and we start producing again. This is where all of our manufacturing jobs have gone.
Utilize all the natural resources at our disposal. Reign in the E.P.A.
Sell 120 acre plots of federal land to citizens at reduced prices to promote family farming and encourage the local food market strategy.
Disband the D.E.A. The war on drugs is a scam. Legalize and tax it.
Empty drug offenders from our prisons.
Reduce the amount of laws on our books by 66% and write laws that anyone can understand. Enforce those simple laws to the letter.
Have set penalties for those laws. No plea bargains.
Make it so simple that attorneys would never be needed.
Create a law that would enable citizens to recall any Govt. official when they do not represent the will of the people.
Outlaw the simple majority vote, and any other lame ruse Congress has made up to get around the Constitution.
Do away with all Federally funded giveaway programs.

Restore our rights to protect our lives, Family's, and property.
Restore common sense and The People will be restored.

I think that this would be a good start and is within our power to do so. But we must stand up and be heard. God Bless America
Mark

When the People fear the Government there is tyranny. When the Government fears the People there is Freedom. Thomas Jefferson
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Ardent Listener
Administrator



USA
4841 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2010 :  08:42:16  Show Profile Send Ardent Listener a Private Message
I too have been an advocate of a constitutional convention among the states. I like most of your ideas. The rest of them I will need to give a little more thought to before I decide. Welcome to realcent and I hope to hear more from you.

Realcent.forumco.com disclosure. Please read.
All posts either by the members, moderators, and the administration of http://realcent.forumco.com are for your edification and amusement only. It is not the intent of realcent.forumco.com or its host to provide investment, medical, matrimonial, legal, security or tax advice and nothing posted here should be considered to be so. All rights reserved.


Think positive.
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coppernickel
Penny Pincher Member



USA
131 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2010 :  12:51:49  Show Profile Send coppernickel a Private Message
That fractional banking system is just wonderful.

Welcome to the 21st century.
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Copper Catcher
Administrator



USA
2092 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2010 :  14:47:32  Show Profile Send Copper Catcher a Private Message
The plan for fixing "the system" may well be a one world currency and with that we will have a national ID card so every aspect of what you do can be traced.

In my opinion you will see the full push for the national ID card, See: You must be logged in to see this link.

My best guess on the time table is 2011 or before. Especially if there is a crisis that occurs...remember what was arrogantly said: “You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”.
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goodcoin
Penny Sorter Member



42 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2010 :  08:07:20  Show Profile Send goodcoin a Private Message
I stumbled across the link You must be logged in to see this link. while surfing the net and wanted to share it with realcent members. It's a college kid that relates the trillions of dollars that we are in debt to the 100 million that Obama claims to have saved us. He does this relationship in cents which is why I felt it is related to this forum. I hope I don't offend anyone. I'm trying not to be political with republican or democrat. The way I see it both parties got us into this mess.
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1588 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2010 :  09:53:36  Show Profile Send Lemon Thrower a Private Message
IMF is proposing a global tax on banks. lends credence to the one world govt theory.

this should be shocking, not so much because banks are being singled out to pay a tax but because of who is imposing the tax - the IMF!

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Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X


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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1720 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2010 :  11:04:52  Show Profile Send PennySaved a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Catcher

The plan for fixing "the system" may well be a one world currency and with that we will have a national ID card so every aspect of what you do can be traced.

In my opinion you will see the full push for the national ID card, See: You must be logged in to see this link.

My best guess on the time table is 2011 or before. Especially if there is a crisis that occurs...remember what was arrogantly said: “You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”.






This makes sense but I pray you are wrong.

SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson
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Lemon Thrower
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1588 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2010 :  05:14:22  Show Profile Send Lemon Thrower a Private Message
here is an except from an interview with John Williams of Shadowstats:

If you look at those GAAP-based statements and include in the deficit the year-to-year change in the net present value of the unfunded liabilities for Social Security and Medicare, what you’ll find is that the annual operating shortfall is running between $4 and $5 trillion; not $500 billion as we saw before the crisis or the $1.4 trillion that they announced for fiscal 2009. Now to put that into perspective, if the government wanted to balance its deficit on a GAAP basis for a year, and it seized all personal income and corporate profits, taxing everything 100%, it would still be in deficit. It can’t raise taxes enough to contain this. On the other side, if it cut all government spending except for Social Security and Medicare, it still would be in deficit. With no political will to contain the spending, eventually the government meets its obligations by revving up the currency printing press.

Buying:
Peace/Morgan G+ at $15.00
copper cents at 1.3X
wheat pennies at 3X


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