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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 19:58:35
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Maybe we should change the forum motto from
"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"
to
"If you don't hold it, you don't own it, and the guy who des is probably secretly working with law enforcement nazis against his own privacy policy."
________________________
"A nickel's nothing to scoff at."
C. Montgomery Burns
HoardCode0.1: M28/5CAON:CA5Ni35000:CA1Cu1200:CA100Ag345:
CA10Ag250:CA50Ag100:CA25Ag30:CA500Ag48:US100Ag20:CA1000Ag16
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psi
Penny Collector Member
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 07:05:56
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| The first link didn't work for me at first but I realized it was because the forum software was screwing it up by inserting "docomeent" in the url. Good point CN, but it's interesting how that collaboration wasn't enough to keep it afloat in this case. It's possible that there are similar operations actually run by US law enforcement, and they're trying to divert business to those. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in any case. |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 10:48:05
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It's a real shame to see a big entity like eGold under attack.
I don't know enough to tell whether or not they are guilty of anything, but it seems that they are likely being attacked because TPTB cannot afford to allow any viable alternatives to the source of their power, fiat "dollars".
Personally I'm afraid to put my funds into any of these kinds of things.
The risk of them either doing something wrong or being attacked is high.
That is the real shame of it all.
I wish that I were not afraid. I wish that I could have confidence in these operations.
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Milan Kundera: "The struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting."
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 18:19:30
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Sometimes fear is a good thing if it keeps you from making an investment you may someday regret.
I myself prefer gold I can hold, not gold stored in a vault that I can never visit. At least, if I stored gold in a Swiss bank I would have better piece of mind.
I still feel bad for e-gold, though I still stick by my statement they should have started up in Switzerland beyond the reach of the Feds, the same way the rich stored gold in Swiss banks after 1933 outside Uncle Sam's greedy reach.
I should have chosen "Cut-n-Paste" as a forum name, since that is what I do, mostly. |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 16:08:28
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I'm not going to try to interpret this, but we should all take notice!
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<begin pasted section>
US Government Forces E-gold Redemptions - Seizes Gold
By MoneyNet Producer | Published 05/11/2007 | Daily News Cast | Unrated
MoneyNet Producer
View all articles by MoneyNet Producer
US Government Forces E-gold Redemptions - Seizes Gold
This article is Copyright 2007. You may re-publish for free it if left intact and only if you give credit with weblink back to You must be logged in to see this link.
===
In an unprecedented move on or just before Wednesday May 9th, 2007, the United States of America has forced Omnipay et al E-gold to redeem all the gold backing the 58 previously frozen accounts owned by e-gold, 1mdc, icegold and a handful of other exchangers and customers to be liquidated effective immediately to a us dollar account owned by the federal government.
According to the reduction in the gold bar list, the bar count
has dropped by 48 bars of approximately 400 oz each between May 3, and May 9.
This redemption totals USD $11.357 Million.
Date Gold Grams ($ Value)
03-05-07 3,489,436 77.015 Million
09-05-07 2,974,871 65.668 Milllion
Gold Bars value Sold: USD 11.357 Million
MoneyNetNews has learned from a reliable source that e-gold has been ordered
to hand over a fresh copy of the customer database when the redemption
is completed.
MoneyNetNews cannot confirm if all of the 48 bars redeemed account for
the forfeiture action of the United States. It is possible that a part
of this activity can be accounted for by increased volatility in e-gold's
general market.
Not only was E-gold / Omnipay ordered to convert gold (and silver) holdings
in the seized accounts into US Dollars, but that included their own
(Omnipay's, and E-gold's) frozen (seized) accounts. This will ultimately
result is great losses of value over time even if the victims of the seizures
are found to be innocent due to the in progress bull market in gold and bear
market in US Dollars.
The seizure order appears to be unrelated to the criminal case in progress
against E-gold and OmniPay in that the seizure of the accounts by the government
was done under a (separate) civil case, for which the Government has yet to file
anything.
By doing so, the government was able to seize accounts without having
to reveal anything to the owners of the accounts themselves. By law,
the government has 30, and possibly up to 90 days to file a complaint.
Until the government civil filing is done, none of the victims of the seizures
can possibly do anything to defend themselves, not even obtain information as
to why their accounts have been seized, or what they would have done wrong.
None of the victims of the account seizures have been advised of anything
officially at this time.
<end pasted section>
Okay, I just can't help myself,
some analysis is justified.
This looks like an excuse to set a precedent.
If this one goes through unnoticed and unchallenged by the courts and the media and the public, then the next time they seize someone's gold, they can cite this event as a precedent.
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Milan Kundera: "The struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting."
Gregory Benford: "Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available."
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Edited by - n/a on 05/14/2007 16:17:29 |
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Gresham
Penny Pincher Member
184 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:25:16
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"they can set this event as a precedent"
Sadly that is how our government has been operating for years. That is why no president is ever caught making executive orders, why presidents make signing comments, why we have a central bank, why there is a war on drugs, why there is a perpetual war abroad...
So the government just took the gold from the depositers, and has made absolutely no comment on it at all. Infact there is no case at all, unless an e-gold depositor sues the government. Of course in the text it is made out to seem like this is e-gold's gold, but it isn't. Now if the depositors were payed the market value for their gold it would be different.
I think that something like this happened before with a soybean elevator, where they went bankrupt and all of the goods in the elevator were confiscated to pay the debts of the elevator including farmer's soybeans that were being stored there. |
Edited by - Gresham on 05/14/2007 18:27:22 |
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n/a
deleted
479 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Gresham
"they can set this event as a precedent"
...
I think that something like this happened before with a soybean elevator, where they went bankrupt and all of the goods in the elevator were confiscated to pay the debts of the elevator including farmer's soybeans that were being stored there.
I have not heard about the soybean elevator, but I have no difficulty in believing that many such examples can be brought up in the USA and elsewhere that would support the notion that the govMint has the "right" to confiscate the property of people who are not even accused of any wrong doing.
I would like to continue to maintain my delusion that the govMint would pay me "market value" for whatever they decide to confiscate from me, but this delusion is becoming gradually less tenable.
.....................
You must be logged in to see this link.
Milan Kundera: "The struggle of people against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting."
Gregory Benford: "Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available."
You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link. |
Edited by - n/a on 05/14/2007 20:54:41 |
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pencilvanian
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
2209 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 21:07:19
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Quote from Athiest:
"I have no difficulty in believing that many such examples can be brought up in the USA and elsewhere that would support the notion that the govMint has the "right" to confiscate the property of people who are not even accused of any wrong doing."
Even the most flimsy evidence of "wrongdoing" is all that is needed by the government to take what is "due" the government (Think IRS, when they make the mistake it is "guilty until proved innocent" on the taxpayer. Think the original gold turn in of 1933. The owners of gold back then did nothing wrong other than owning the yellow metal. Think drugs planted in a car, think entrapment)
I guess this is the reason so many old timers hid gold and silver, to prevent it from falling into the hands of the bad guys and tax collectors (I know, I know, one in the same sometimes.)
I should have chosen "Cut-n-Paste" as a forum name, since that is what I do, mostly. |
Edited by - pencilvanian on 05/14/2007 21:11:50 |
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Canadian_Nickle
Penny Hoarding Member
Canada
938 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 01:25:55
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From my reading of the article, what happened was that the government ordered egold to sell the gold it was holding for those users into the open market, but then transfer the proceeds of the sale to the government as FRN datas. They didn't "seize the gold" as much as "freeze the assets" in play. The gold just got put to market. Where perhpas the government bought it up, but who kows?
________________________
"A nickel's nothing to scoff at."
C. Montgomery Burns
HoardCode0.1: M28/5CAON:CA5Ni35000:CA1Cu1200:CA100Ag345:
CA10Ag250:CA50Ag100:CA25Ag30:CA500Ag48:US100Ag20:CA1000Ag16
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Digital 1933?
Forum Locked
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 19:04:55
