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 U.S.Mint might change metal content of U.S. coins?
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PennySaved
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1720 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2010 :  15:27:26  Show Profile Send PennySaved a Private Message
So any word on a change in metal composition since we now in 2010?

SELLING COPPER PENNIES 1.4X FACE SHIPPED......“I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principles of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale” Thomas Jefferson
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Ponce
Penny Hoarding Member



Cuba
630 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2010 :  00:59:28  Show Profile Send Ponce a Private Message
Yes, around $12,000 to $13,000 in nickels, maybe more, I do have now.......

Gentlemen (and ladies) remember that coins are made by the US MINT while the paper dollars is made by the Federal Reserve........that alone tells me that the US will stand by their coins while the Feds will hide.

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"... Ponce

Be an owner........

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it"...Ponce
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nologiks
Penny Sorter Member



83 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  18:50:07  Show Profile Send nologiks a Private Message
I agree, I woudn't be sad if the nickel was changed.. That just means that me sorting my nicks is working. I am making money Grishams law baby!
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theo
Penny Hoarding Member



USA
588 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2010 :  23:21:17  Show Profile Send theo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by PennySaved

So any word on a change in metal composition since we now in 2010?



I found this article on coinflation. It doesn't sound like they've made a clear decision yet, but they are taking a serious look at their options. My favorite line is:

"The 2011 Budget would bring the costs of coins more in-line with their face values and create a more sustainable, cost-effective 21st Century use of materials in the minting process."

I wonder if those plastic pennies we've been finding are prototypes.



You must be logged in to see this link.

Coin Composition Change Included In Obama's 2011 Budget

By Alec Nevalainen
Coinflation.com
February 02, 2010



This section appears in the Terminations, Reductions, and Savings portion of the budget. This document can be found at You must be logged in to see this link.

One omission from the proposed composition change is the Presidential and Native American Dollars. Either they are satisfied with the current composition or they were left out inadvertently (which I can understand, the Presidential dollar program is easily forgettable).

Full text from page 100:


OTHER SAVINGS: COINAGE MATERIAL
Department of the Treasury

The Budget proposes to provide the U.S. Mint with greater flexibility in the material composition of coins to reduce its losses on some coins and the production costs associated with volatile metal prices.


Justification

The Mint's primary cost driver is the price of metal, a factor over which it has no control. Daily spot prices of copper and zinc, the Mint's two main metallic materials, have fluctuated in excess of 100 percent, and the price of nickel by 500 percent in recent years.¹ This contributes to volatile and negative margins on both the penny and nickel: in recent years the penny has cost approximately 1.8 cents and the nickel approximately 9 cents to produce.² Costs have exceeded the value of these two coins by over $100 million in prior years. Through its gains on other coins, the Mint annually returns hundreds of millions of dollars to the Treasury General Fund (GF) and is funded by the Mint Public Enterprise Fund.

Greater flexibility in the composition of coinage materials could enable the Mint to utilize less expensive metals in the minting process and substantially reduce its production costs. Using alternative coinage materials could save $150 million annually after an initial period of development and capital adjustments. These savings result from increased seigniorage, or the difference between the face value of the coin paid by the Federal Reserve and the cost of production. Seigniorage increases the available means of financing, but has no direct budgetary impact. Specifically, the Budget includes provisions that authorize the Department of the Treasury to approve alternative coinage compositions and weights across five denominations (half dollar, quarter, dime, nickel, and penny).

The 2011 Budget would bring the costs of coins more in-line with their face values and create a more sustainable, cost-effective 21st Century use of materials in the minting process. The Budget enables the Department of the Treasury to explore, analyze, and approve new, less expensive materials for all circulating coins based on factors that will result in the highest quality of coin production at the most cost-effective price. Such factors may include physical, chemical, metallurgical and technical characteristics; material, fabrication, minting, and distribution costs; materials availability and sources of raw materials; durability; effects on sorting, handling, packaging and vending machines; and resistance to counterfeiting. The added flexibility the Budget proposes will improve the minting process and enable the Mint to mitigate the high, volatile costs of commodity metals.

Citations

1. Global InfoMine, Metals Prices, You must be logged in to see this link. (January 2010).
2. USA TODAY, Coins Cost More to Make than Face Value, You must be logged in to see this link. (May 2006).



My cynicism towards Congress prevents me from being optimistic about the change, not sure if the zinc, nickel, and copper lobby will let it happen. Canada's current system of a steel-based composition coin would seem to be the odds-on favorite if the change were to occur. Aluminum is another alternative, but the weight of each coin would be significantly less and probably upset the coin-op industry.

Using history as a guide, it's easy to predict this section will be dropped before the budget is passed. Jarden Zinc and many others with a direct interest in maintaining the status quo have been very effective with their lobbying efforts (at least this is how it appears).

It will be very interesting to watch how this unfolds.

Edited by - theo on 02/02/2010 23:23:19
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Cody8404
Penny Hoarding Member



USA
602 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2010 :  18:56:02  Show Profile Send Cody8404 a Private Message
We knew it would happen it was just a matter of when.

Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion, to the help of the people of the God of this Land even Jesus Christ.
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uthminsta
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1872 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2010 :  21:31:21  Show Profile Send uthminsta a Private Message
My guess is ALUMINUM. It will be great to know that my coins used to be beer cans. :)

Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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Computer Jones
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2010 :  21:37:45  Show Profile Send Computer Jones a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by uthminsta

My guess is ALUMINUM. It will be great to know that my coins used to be beer cans. :)



Al will be to expensive.
You will find your coins are thinly coated ca$h for clunker$!

There's profit if you melt things!!
8{>
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Cupronickel
Penny Pincher Member



USA
110 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2010 :  19:19:57  Show Profile Send Cupronickel a Private Message
I would think going to steel would be the logical choice. Aluminum just isn't robust enough to be used as a coinage metal and Al nickels would require major revamping for most coin mechs due to the much lighter weight.
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Cerulean
Penny Hoarding Member



USA
993 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  13:24:31  Show Profile Send Cerulean a Private Message
Aluminum has been used by many nations for coinage since the 1930s. Japan's 1 yen coins have been aluminum since 1959, and some of those old timers are still circulating a half-century later.

Sorting Map
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Are you a Buffalo Hunter?
Wanna take seignorage away from the Fed? Spend *any* coins!
We cannot afford this government.
Cerulean's Standing Offer: $3/lb shipped for foreign coins
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kentucky7887
Penny Sorter Member



USA
30 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2010 :  22:10:48  Show Profile Send kentucky7887 a Private Message
if you have 12k in coins why not invest in gold or silver coins
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JWRAY
Penny Collector Member

USA
378 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2010 :  23:32:42  Show Profile Send JWRAY a Private Message
Nickel and copper are much more versatile in a SHTF situation. You dont want to be making household metal items for daily use out of gold, but copper and nickel, good to go!

MOVING SALE!!! Selling Copper Cents 1.4 shipped - in limited quantities PM me and we'll talk.
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator



USA
6807 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2010 :  23:56:06  Show Profile Send HoardCopperByTheTon a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neckro

quote:
Originally posted by highroller4321

quote:
Originally posted by fb101

I read a 2009 dime was found in a webster bank in MA.

I saw my first loose log and formative today in Wilmington.
Tellers had found one of each and were keeping them.
Have not seen a dime or nickel at all.

As far as hoarding nickels, The old ones won't disappear fast until they get to be 2x or 3x face (IMHO)



09 dimes are going for $70 a roll on ebay. Seller locations are in Mass, Texas, and Cali

09 nickels are going for $50 EACH on ebay!!! Only seller location is in Cali.


But back to the original topic!

Haha, Is that Hoard?


Ah, if only! I am in CA.. but have yet to get any '09 nickels or dimes yet. Hardly even got any '09 pennies.. only 4 boxes of LP-4 D's out of a 24 box order a month ago. The order the following week had none.

If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.

Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available.
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knibloe
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1066 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2010 :  07:19:22  Show Profile Send knibloe a Private Message
The whole situation is a joke in my opinion.

1. The mint was not established to be a for profit enterprise. It was designed to take raw materials in at one cost, convert them to coins of equal value and in the process lose the production costs.
2. The savings of $150 million are a joke. That amounts to $.50 per man woman and child. I will gladly pony up the $2 for my family if we can keep semi real coinage in circulation.
3. If they want to save any real money they need to look at the programs that cost billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions and dare I say it trillions.
4. The $150 they "say" they are going to save won't really happen and won't affect anything.
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JobIII
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1507 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2010 :  11:38:40  Show Profile Send JobIII a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by knibloe

The whole situation is a joke in my opinion.

1. The mint was not established to be a for profit enterprise. It was designed to take raw materials in at one cost, convert them to coins of equal value and in the process lose the production costs.
2. The savings of $150 million are a joke. That amounts to $.50 per man woman and child. I will gladly pony up the $2 for my family if we can keep semi real coinage in circulation.
3. If they want to save any real money they need to look at the programs that cost billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions and dare I say it trillions.
4. The $150 they "say" they are going to save won't really happen and won't affect anything.



I don't really care either way. The 150 may be a 'joke' to some. But i'm pretty sure that equates to 5000 jobs (@ 30K a year). Just because i don't know anyone struggling out there doesn't mean there aren't people that could enjoy a steady pay check.

Yes it would make sorting current nickels harder. But isn't that what we need for the nickel hoard to really appreciate?

Selling Copper cents. $0 FV available at 1.4xFV. Also interested in trading for wheat pennies and other coins Please pm me for requests or inquiries.



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theo
Penny Hoarding Member



USA
588 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2010 :  12:21:34  Show Profile Send theo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by kentucky7887

if you have 12k in coins why not invest in gold or silver coins



I think the argument for investing in nickels or pennies is diversification. Its difficult to tell exactly how inflation will effect various assets, therefore it is prudent to play all the angles. An individual who has 12k in nickels might have significant silver and gold investments as well.

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jadedragon
Administrator



Canada
3788 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2010 :  17:59:02  Show Profile Send jadedragon a Private Message
I wrote an article on this point. It is getting tons of reads. You must be logged in to see this link.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” – George Bernard Shaw.
Why Copper Bullion ~~~ Interview with Silver Bullion Producer Market Harmony
Passive Income blog
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rainsonme
Penny Pincher Member



USA
183 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2010 :  20:27:33  Show Profile Send rainsonme a Private Message
I am sure we have all had experinece with stores that round up instead of giving out pennies. On Friday I had my first experience with a bank rounding up instead of giving out pennies. They owed me something and 99 cents, so the teller rounded up. I protested mildly, since I am always happy to get pennies in change, but she said that so long as her till was within $3 at the end of the day, it did not matter, and she would rather round up. If banks start to round up, then I think the penny is really doomed.
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