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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member


174 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  12:58:39  Show Profile Send jorhyne a Private Message
Hi there,
I am attempting to build my own penny sorter using this comparator from eBay: You must be logged in to see this link.

I have received the comparator and bought an AC adapter for it. I have cut off the tip of the adapter and stripped down the two cables coming from the adapter but we are not sure how to wire it up to the comparator. The comparator has 6 wires that are supposed to be wired I believe? Anyone who has any experience with this comparator or wiring in general, help would be appreciated. I will post pictures soon.

P.S. I realize that buying a Ryedale would seem to be the smart decision for some of you, but $200 is a lot of money for me, and I am fine with having a slightly slower and less accurate sorter for $150 less.

Pennies For Sale: http://tiny.cc/jorhynespennies

n/a
deleted

85 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  13:29:32  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
I'm interested in seeing pictures of what you got there but I don't think I would be much help to you. I too wouldn't mind having a slighly slower sorter but not a less accurate one. Who is going to buy your copper cents if they have zinc cents mixed in with them? That defeats the whole purpose in sorting.

"The key to building wealth is to not lose money." - Warren Buffet
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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member



174 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  14:09:38  Show Profile Send jorhyne a Private Message
Here are some pics:

You must be logged in to see this link.

You must be logged in to see this link.

You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.


The links are larger versions of that picture. Thanks!
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MaDeuce
Penny Pincher Member



USA
124 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  16:14:30  Show Profile Send MaDeuce a Private Message
Hi. Since you took a really good high-res photo of your device, I can easily see that it is a Wei-Ya HI-08CS. I googled it to see if I could find a manufacturer's data sheet on it, but I could not. I did, however, find the following link on the Wei-Ya web site:

You must be logged in to see this link.

That page claims the following specs:

#8251; COMPARABLE ELECTRONIC
CPU TYPE
CPU control anti-stringing system
Lockout 3 cycles
Slot coin speed limited
Inhibit: high (+3v~+12v)
low (below +1v)

ANTI-STRINGING CPU SYSTEM SPECIFICATION
LOCKOUT 3 CYCLES AUTO REFLECT
1st time 10sec / 2nd time 10sec / 3rd time 25sec


Maybe someone that is vending/gambling knowledgeable can shed some light on this, but the "anti-stringing" wording makes me worry a little bit. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect that anti-stringing has something to do with preventing someone from defrauding the device. I can imagine a couple of possibilities:

1) It simply throttles the rate a which coins can be put into the device.
2) It throttles the rate at which coins can be put in the device, but only comes in to play when a coin has been rejected.
3) I'm sure there are others.

Anyway, my concern is that if it is anything like the above, it may prevent you from sorting (or at least prevent you from sorting quickly). When sorting, you will definitely have rejects, and if anti-stringing relates to that in any way, it will slow you down.

Perhaps it can be turned on/off via a jumper, programmer, or the equivalent.

I also saw on your photo that a wiring guide is actually on the device. I suspect that, to get started, you can just use the red (+12v) and black (-12v) wires. Initially, you don't care about the counter. I'm not sure what the NC/NO pins are for, but they may tell the device how your counter operates (i.e., how to tell it to increment the count).

I have no idea what the timer switch is for.

The hole on the bottom right, which will have a screw connected to an adjustable resistor/pot, probably adjusts the sensitivity of the comparison. I can't read what it says, so I could easily be wrong.

Finally, you will see a sliding arm that has a sticker which says "replace coin". This arm holds a sample of the type of coin you want to accept. If you are sorting pennies, then you want to put a pre-82 penny in the arm. Currently, there is a yellow (I think - I am color blind) plastic fake coin held by the arm. Replace this plastic coin with what you are looking for.

Other than that, that should be all you need. If you have any problems, I would definitely recommend an email to the manufacturer to get a data sheet. Also, there are a number of people on this list that know way more about these things than I do. If I've made any mistakes, hopefully, they'll point them out.

Welcome to sorting and have fun.

MaDeuce


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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1641 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  17:12:55  Show Profile Send horgad a Private Message
This is the same comparator that I used to sort 500k pennies before I got my Ryedale. As MaDeuce said, you only need to hook up two wires:
red - DC + 12 V and black - Ground. The black wire (negative) goes to the bottom pin and the red wire (positive) to the 2nd from the bottom pin. Don't switch them around are the whole thing might get trashed. I used a wire harness for a led light from an old computer case as shown. I soldered the harness onto an old 12v power supply that had kicking around the house.

It is not nearly as good for sorting pennies as the one used in the Apprentice and was a source of frustration for me until I learned to work around its limitations. Which mostly had to with sorting problems related to shooting coins into it too rapidly (see MaDuece's comment on the Anti-Stringing logic used by the comparator).

I considered upgraded to a more suitable comparator before I bought the apprentice, but I figured that I might have to buy 2-3 or more before I found the right one. So I never bothered.

If you are interested, I will tell you the technique that I used to get a speed of about 30-35 minutes per a box using this sorter, but if somebody could recommend a better comparator for you it might save you some hassle in the long run...

You must be logged in to see this link.


Edited by - horgad on 01/12/2008 17:16:41
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Ryedale
Administrator



USA
523 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  17:26:21  Show Profile Send Ryedale a Private Message
I'm not going to give away all my secrets, but I do know what anti stringing is.
Stringing is a cheaters technique in a casino, where they tie a fishline or string to a coin, (probably by drilling the coin) and drop the coin in the machine, then after a credit is registered, they simply retrieve the coin by pulling back on the string. A coin acceptor with anti stringing has basicly a mechanical check-valve to only allow the coin to go in, and not be retrieved by a string. This comparitor may have the ability to monitor a coin that is pulling backwards through the electromagnetic field.

Good luck with your project.

Ryedale

GET YOUR DRI-SLIDE FROM IRONBRAID
http://www.ironbraid.com/driside.html

Used with permission from Ironbraid.


Quote
"The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right place, but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the most tempting moment."
— Dorothy Neville-Rolfe
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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member



174 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  21:17:53  Show Profile Send jorhyne a Private Message
Thanks everyone for the quick and thorough responses. Horgad, are you saying I need to modify/make my own wire harness? Can I not just connect the red and black wires and leave the rest of the other wires untouched?

Pennies For Sale: http://tiny.cc/jorhynespennies
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1641 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2008 :  06:14:18  Show Profile Send horgad a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jorhyne

Thanks everyone for the quick and thorough responses. Horgad, are you saying I need to modify/make my own wire harness? Can I not just connect the red and black wires and leave the rest of the other wires untouched?



Your wire harness will work just fine plus have room for possible expansion later.
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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member



174 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2008 :  10:16:33  Show Profile Send jorhyne a Private Message
So Horgad by looking at the pictures can you tell if I have it wired correctly. Right now I have both the red and black cables connected to the two wires that were coming out of the AC adapter.

Pennies For Sale: http://tiny.cc/jorhynespennies
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1641 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2008 :  12:24:03  Show Profile Send horgad a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jorhyne

So Horgad by looking at the pictures can you tell if I have it wired correctly. Right now I have both the red and black cables connected to the two wires that were coming out of the AC adapter.



Your harness looks good with black on the bottom followed by red, but there is no way to tell from the pictures if the wires are reversed when the are attached to the power supply. I used a multimeter on my power supply to verify positive and negative wires before hooking it up to my wire harness. Do you have one available?

Or maybe somebody has another idea to verify?
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jorhyne
Penny Pincher Member



174 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2008 :  13:06:43  Show Profile Send jorhyne a Private Message
Ah yes, I think I have a multimeter somewhere around here...I'll find it and post back later.

Pennies For Sale: http://tiny.cc/jorhynespennies
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Tourney64
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1035 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  17:07:25  Show Profile Send Tourney64 a Private Message
Your power supply may show which wire is positive and which is negative on the power supply. There may be a drawing showing an inner and outer circle on the supply, or on the adapter plug if you bought a universal one from Radio Shack.
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n/a
deleted



1 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2008 :  09:50:26  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Tourney64, This is a first time post for me....been following the forum for a little while now....Did you ever get this to work for you ??? I would love to get a Ryedale, but am new to this and not sure about the investment at this point. I would also be interested in Horgad's setup. I did see your diagram which looks like shoots that end up at the bottom in the coin discriminator. How well does this separate the coins ??? What coin or coins did you use in the separator ??? Did you have to modify the discriminator to make it go quicker ??? Thanks guys for all the info on this forum....some very interesting stuff. Oh, and how does this discriminator differ from the Ryedale Hand Fed system for $199 ??? Thanks Again, Mike
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horgad
1000+ Penny Miser Member



USA
1641 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2008 :  12:47:28  Show Profile Send horgad a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by boeing747

Tourney64, This is a first time post for me....been following the forum for a little while now....Did you ever get this to work for you ??? I would love to get a Ryedale, but am new to this and not sure about the investment at this point. I would also be interested in Horgad's setup. I did see your diagram which looks like shoots that end up at the bottom in the coin discriminator. How well does this separate the coins ??? What coin or coins did you use in the separator ??? Did you have to modify the discriminator to make it go quicker ??? Thanks guys for all the info on this forum....some very interesting stuff. Oh, and how does this discriminator differ from the Ryedale Hand Fed system for $199 ??? Thanks Again, Mike



You must be logged in to see this link.

The biggest disappointment of my set-up was the coin discriminator. it was too slow and some kind of anti-theft system would lock it up for several seconds if you tried to dump coins in to fast. When locked up, everything would get rejected. So going fast meant accuracy problems. That being said I still managed to sort 1/2 million pennies with it by learning its quirks and working my process around them.

So ideally you need to try and find a discriminator that is as fast as possible and that contains no anti theft logic. Just remember that if you buy one off of E-Bay and it is not quite right, you end-up eating the expense and going out to try and find a different one or you end-up like me doing goofy things to work around the problems.

Which follows that the biggest advantages of the Ryedale Hand Fed fed system is that you know that you are getting the right discriminator for the job and you don't have to worry about wiring it up. Ryedale has already done the testing and the detective work to find the right discriminator.
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