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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2010 : 22:31:22
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If you have the ability to obtain AC Units Or Air Conditioners
These are a favorite source of Metal=Money!
A great source, that is a tried and true practice of a regular supply of Units is...
Asking...
Whom?
While driving anywhere you will always see a HVAC guy working somewhere or eating lunch anywhere. Have a card and say Hi!
Possibly stop and discuss possibilities and give out a card. Simply walk to the door, if no one is outside yell in the usually open door. Sounds strange. But, oddly enough as a homeowner you are already in the "someone is working on my house mode" and not at all startled by another individual. State your case that you haul metal(to the contractor not the home owner to them say "where's the guys") and will gladly take the unit off there hands. Also help take things apart and clean up there usual mess. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't. Sometimes it turns into a long term relationship and you may have beer and BBQ's.
Some guys have no problem these are usually the one owner does it all individuals whom produce enough metal each month for you to pay a mortgage or at least a car payment or two. (or whatever your needs)
Edit: When Initially starting let them know that all they have to do is call you and you will arrive on the job site. Always help remove and clean the outside area. This may lead to numerous contractors calling everyday and telling where they are. It allows them to do more work by not having to load up and haul units back to the shop. Owners like it too, it increases production. ( also bring food and drinks)
Once a AC unit is procured what to do with it?
Generally they will contain freon, most guys as they have the equipment do not empty them right away.They just shut them down with a cap or valve fitting. You can buy an older used recovery machine for around $250. Recommended >> Also available is to use a fitting with a hose and control valve. (Easy to do yet inexpensive with little risk of contamination)Harbor Freight has everything you need.
A short cut many HVAC guys use is the bucket of water technique. This is easy fast and works to keep the freon from going everywhere.( will come back to this)
Take the unit home. Either use a screw gun and remove the screws and take the top and sides apart or my preferred method is a hammer. Simply swing a 20oz claw hammer and hit where the screw is attached and pop each screw. With practice it becomes much faster than a screw gun. If sound is an issue then go with the screw gun.
When removing the top it also holds the fan so it will be attached with some nice copper wire.(into the insulated wire bucket) Use bolt cutters from harbor freight in 24" and 36" length.(Harbor freight has a generous replacement policy on tools)Use your cutters to snip the wires each end.
Remove screws from top first
Pick top up and let hang over the edge the wires will then be tight and easy to snip. (Remove the motor as it goes in another bucket of electric motors) Just use the bolt cutter to snip off the fan blades. Which in some instances are aluminum yet another bin.
There will be one row on a typical unit of screws for the sides and various screws holding it to the bottom. Remove those and peel the sides. They will not come completely off until the copper pipe is removed.
Now that you can visually see all the tubing it is time to remove the freon. Find the piece that is longest it may have small tubes connecting and will be in a S shape.
Have a 5 gallon bucket fill 3/4 with water within reach of the copper as it sites. Take your bolt cutters and slowly clamp down at the furthest end from the condenser. (Oh yeah always where gloves and safety glasses)As you slowly crunch the metal you are also slowly crimping. If done proper you will then cut through and roll the cutters into the metal closest to the condenser. Once sniped grab the pipe away from the leaking end and bend the copper stretching it into the bucket of water. If it is not yet leaking take a regular screw driver and open the end or just re snip cutting off the pinch while submersed. The freon then will bubble the water and also be trapped in the water not being released into the air for you to breath. The gas in the air does not rise it stays at ground level. Not cool! The freon into the bucket stays in the water. That's cool!
Once empty use bolt cutters again and snip the copper to remove the sides. Fold them up. (this is clean metal and at a yard that has a baler it is worth more) Cut off all copper pipe and set to the side for later copper cleaning to remove brass fitting and solder joints.
Now the radiator itself...
There are many different radiators most will have copper tube running through thin aluminum sheets. On the ends you will see the copper turning in a loop or u-turning back to the next row. The metal they go through on each end is steel. This need to be removed or you will not get clean radiator price. To do this is simple. There are two common methods either a sawzall or another method wich is an ax. The ax with practice is faster, the sawzall does the same thing.
Stand the radiator as it was in its housing, take your ax and simply start chopping along the steel edge. The soft copper will come off like butter. Go down the whole edge until you have a bunch of copper all around you. Imagine this as little coins everywhere. Sweep them into a dustpan and place straight to the #1 bucket.
Now the steel... Use the axe again this time striking inside the steel from the top, once started it comes right off.
Fold the radiator up and stack!
The condenser... contains copper. It is sealed in the middle. Use a hammer as it is a favorite tool. I can't tell you how much money this thing has made it's impressive. Any way, lay it on it's side and smack it to deform the circle. Use a heavy duty gorilla pry bar from Harbor Freight, another amazing tool! (Perfect for removing aluminum from freezers, that's another thread to come) Once you indent the casing, stick in the bar and smack the other end forcing more deformity if not successful on the first dent just move 1/4 around and do it again it should open up on its own.
Inside, yet more copper, Use your tools above and remove.
Fold the steel and stack, separate the copper, sweep the screws and again put them in the screw bucket for a soon to be super supply.
Clean radiators bring more money than unclean, usually a dime or so per lbs. Again, if possible hoard a months worth and call around. Having a 1000 lbs of clean radiators brings above board price.
Get Paid!
Good Luck !
Please conduct your own research and follow all local ordinances as applicable by law.
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"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
Edited by - cptindy on 04/26/2010 08:33:11 |
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thogey
1000+ Penny Miser Member
USA
1617 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2010 : 22:40:02
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This is a great series of info you have been laying down recently.
Thanks |
Come to the new and improved realcent: http://realcent.org
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2010 : 22:58:41
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Thanks
I just want to help people make more money. If you are going through the effort you should make the most money available.
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"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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HoardCopperByTheTon
Administrator
USA
6807 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2010 : 01:47:54
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Fantastic post cptindy! This type of sharing of info and knowledge is what makes this such a great site for all the members.  |
If your percentages are low.. just sort more. If your percentages are high.. just sort more.
Now selling Copper pennies. 1.6x plus shipping. Limited amounts available. |
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cpthnsolo
Penny Sorter Member
50 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2010 : 11:04:38
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Awesome post cptindy!
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coinwolf
Penny Collector Member
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2010 : 07:41:59
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very helpful post as always! Thanks |
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Kurr
1000+ Penny Miser Member
2906 Posts |
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cpthnsolo
Penny Sorter Member
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 10:10:27
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quote:
Originally posted by cptindy
While driving anywhere you will always see a HVAC guy working somewhere or eating lunch anywhere.
THANK YOU for the suggestion cptindy. I saw a DelAir truck in my neighborhood this weekend and I did exactly what you said. I walked up and asked the guy if I could haul the old unit away and help him clean up a bit. He pointed to a massive box containing 200+ pounds of construction trash and said if I hauled it away I could have the unit as well as long as the home owner didn't mind. Long story short I have my first a/c unit to scrap and if it weren't for your tip I probably would have just drove on by.
 
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 13:11:57
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Thank You for posting your success! It helps pave the way for independence for everyone. I have made good friends doing just this and the money as it were my first desire became secondary. Although, the money don't hurt. It is a two way street.
Good Luck!
P.S.
Do this once a day for 3 months and you will be answering the phone and simply running metal.
Remember to show up with some cold water or Power Aid, Various flavors of choice, they love it! |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
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wayne1956
Penny Pincher Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 21:39:21
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| cptindy. You have given some great advice here, and I plan on trying it first chance I get when I seen an AC unit being replaced. One thing I did want to mention though. You said under the part of the radiators "The metal they go through on each end is steel." I found this not to always be the case. I got 3 window units a week ago, and found the ends on two of them that the copper tubing ran through actually was aluminum. I was getting ready to put it into my steel pile, and noticed it was not rusted like the previous, so I tried the magnet test, and it did not stick. Just thought I would let folks know that if the end is not rusty, you might want to see if it is aluminum. cptindy, again, appreciate the great advice. |
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wayne1956
Penny Pincher Member
177 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 21:42:56
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| I also forgot to ask, how many times do you use the water method before you dump the bucket? And where would be a good place to dump it? Just on the ground somewheres? Did not know what it might do to the grass or vegetation. |
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CrazyTom
Penny Sorter Member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2010 : 22:03:59
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Be very careful.
Intentional venting of refrigerant gas carries heavy fines and jail.
The contractor handling the AC unit is responsible for documenting and tracking its refrigerant recovery and disposal, both of the gas and the unit itself. Do not accept a unit without documentation from the contractor that the unit has been recovered down to 10" of mercury vacuum pressure.
If someone decided to cash in on a 10,000 dollar reward all they would need to do is video tape the entire exchange.
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Read Atlas Shrugged if you want to know why this country is in the crapper. |
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cptindy
Penny Hoarding Member
572 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 08:19:52
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Very useful information CrazyTom...
It is the "contractor" that is responsible for....
Quote CrazyTom
"The contractor handling the AC unit is responsible for documenting and tracking its refrigerant recovery and disposal, both of the gas and the unit itself".
There are "Laws and Regulations" that deem this responsibility solely on a Licensed Mechanical contractor.
As well as recent requests and movements to become a "noble citizen" and spy on your Neighbor and turn them in if suspecting suspicious behavior. An example would be the newly trained cable and waste management employees in cooperation with the local sheriff.
Quote CrazyTom
"Do not accept a unit without documentation from the contractor that the unit has been recovered down to 10" of mercury vacuum pressure."
Great to have them reclaim if possible, definitely save some work. Although I don't believe every company follows this practice.
Documentation for turning in "whole AC units" would be required if that is your intention.
As to the other questions and observations...
Great post Wayne! You are correct just like any manufacture there will be differences and using a magnet is always wise.
As far as water disposal one may presume that its contents should be disposed of in a place that is prepared and designed to handle these contaminants.
Scrap yards generally are designed to handle and reclaim spills and overflow and have already been tainted by association.
It would not be prudent to dump into local ground water.
Question for CrazyTom
Given your input one may presume that you have knowledge and or training as a hvac professional.
What is the standard operating procedure that you yourself use on a daily basis?
Do you scrap your own or your companies AC Units?
What equipment and tools would you suggest to benefit those looking to reclaim?
Have you in the past benefited from a video surveillance technique to gain a monetary reward?
If so, how long is and what is the process one would go about to see it through?
Thank you for your reply in advance as all knowledge is useful in any venture... |
"It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting"
" The average man doesn't want to be free. He wants to be safe."
H.L. Mencken
http://silver-news-today.com/ |
Edited by - cptindy on 04/26/2010 19:16:34 |
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silversaddle1
Penny Pincher Member
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 09:53:21
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I spent 8 years recycling AC units when we first started scrapping. We had a route in Omaha that had 5 different companies that gave us all the scrap. This was right about the time the recovery laws went into effect. Back then the HVAC guys would pump the system down then cut the copper tube that went into the compressor. We would not pick up any units without the tube cut after the law went in.
As far as recycling, we have done every sized unit from small camper units all the way up to huge rooftop units that were 40 feet long and 8 feet wide. Coils out of those units were ranging from 250-300 pounds each and were a full 8 inches thick. Now you are not going to clean those with an axe. So, to get the steel endplanes (thats what they are called) off of thicker coils there's two good tried and true methods to do it. First way is a sawzall. Now this method is good and quick, but it takes lots of practice to master. Some other problems with the sawzall method is if the coil is thicker than the blade, the tip of the blade will stab the copper pipe it can't reach and the blade will bend. Another problem is if you do not learn to keep the blade tight against the endplane, the blade will cut into the coil. When this happens it's very hard to remove the copper elbows from the endplane.
So I will present another method that works slicker than a whistle and is fast. Get a air chisel, the small ones like the autobody guys use. They sell a bit for them that kinda looks like a "v" on the cutting edge. Stand the coil up so the endplanes are going up and down. Start at the top of one row or elbows and run the tool down the row. It's quick, it's fast, and the copper elbows are clean and ready to pick up.Once you get the elbows cut off, lay the coil down and pry off the endplane, or just hit it with a hammer and knock it off! Done!
One other thing I might mention about the copper elbows. The ones with the solder in them, some of those are soldered with a high grade silver solder, high in silver content. Research it a little if you are going to generate a lot of them.
Any questions? |
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CrazyTom
Penny Sorter Member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 18:33:25
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I do work in the industry.
We adhere to every law and document every pound of gas. We scrap our own units.
I have never turned anyone in for a reward.
Just be careful and don't do anything that could get you in trouble. Know the laws and abide by them. It isn't worth the fines and jail.
10" means ten inches of mercury. It is a means of measuring vacuum pressure. The unit has to be recovered by a certified technician.
This is all part of the clean air act.
Water is not an acceptable means of recovering the gas. There is no procedure for disposal of water saturated with refrigerant. The only refrigerant that is disposed of in water is ammonia.
The water will eventually saturate and no longer absorb ammonia requiring fresh water to continue. Ammonia water cannot be dumped in the city sewer system because it will kill the microbes at the treatment plant.
R-22 (Freon, trade name of DuPont) was blown into water many years ago before the laws took effect. It was not to recover the gas but to protect the technician. |
Read Atlas Shrugged if you want to know why this country is in the crapper. |
Edited by - CrazyTom on 04/26/2010 20:11:49 |
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scrapman1077
Penny Sorter Member
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 21:11:50
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| I will buy the soldered end bits from ac units at the #1 copper price and cover the shipping, as long as you pack a flat rate box as full as you can. scrapman1077 |
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Aluminum Copper Radiators For Dummies...
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