| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Market Harmony |
Posted - 06/24/2009 : 18:26:26
As if eBay fees weren't bad enough, you've got to read this [expletive] email I received today from PayPal. I can't believe this [expletive]! 
"An important change to your PayPal account
Hello Market Harmony,
Your business is important to us, and we are working hard to provide an easy, fast and secure payment service to you and your customers while keeping our prices competitive. We're also committed to clearly communicating changes to our policies and procedures. To that end, we are writing to inform you of a change to your PayPal account, which will take effect 30 days from the date of this email.
Beginning 07/25/2009, a small percentage of the total payments you receive will be held temporarily as a reserve in your account. This small reserve amount helps to ensure that funds are available to cover payment reversals or buyer chargebacks, if you do not have a sufficient PayPal account balance and do not provide the funds to do so.
A reserve is like a security deposit for your PayPal account and is standard practice in the payments industry, especially for retail segments like Coins & Paper Money where there is a higher-than-average risk of reversals or chargebacks. This does not mean that you have done anything wrong. We are requiring a small reserve in your account because you sell in a category that has a higher risk of reversals and chargebacks and because you are relatively new to PayPal as a seller.
Your reserve amount will be 10% of the total payments you receive, which will be held on a rolling 60-day schedule. That means 10% of the money you take in each day will be held in your account, and then made available for withdrawal 60 days later.
For example, if you receive $2,000 every 60 days into your PayPal account, then a reserve amount of about $400 would be required on a rolling 60-day period. In other words, about $6.67 would be held in reserve each day, then released 60 days later.
If you are a PayPal Money Market Fund customer, you will still earn interest on your total balance while your money is in reserve. Click here for more information or to enroll in the PayPal Money Market Fund.
We recognize this is a change in the way we do business with you. By requiring some merchants to reserve money in their accounts, we're able to lower our own costs. Keeping our costs low helps us to continue providing competitive pricing for all sellers who use PayPal.
If you have any questions about this change, please call us at 1-877-729-7252. We appreciate your business and look forward to a continued partnership.
Sincerely,
PayPal"
OUCH!!!! 
As a side note:
I called the number, but it immediately asked for the last 4 digits of my credit card associated with the account... I hung up the phone and will go directly to the PayPal sight to confirm the phone number first. I don't trust these kinds of emails, and I kindly suggest that nobody trust emails with phone numbers in them.
Thanks for the vent. I feel a little better. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Market Harmony |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 23:38:11
quote:
Originally posted by jadedragon
An alternate solution is just open another = no reserve = paypal account.
I thought about doing opening a new account, but it just isn't worth the hassle to me. Just thinking about all the costs that the eBay and PayPal machine adds to doing business just pushes me further away from it.
My decision is to sell only copper cents on eBay. I will only have a few PayPal transaction available through my website. They are listed in the "specials" section of http://marketharmony.biz. For all other business, I am cutting eBay and PayPal out of my company's business transactions. I am holding my own quasi-boycott of both. Until things change, I would rather refuse business than to accept their polcies.
eBay just reported their quarterly earnings... a huge jump, and the stock price is increasing. All these profits aren't being enjoyed by the people using eBay or PayPal, but the stockholders sure get a nice boost. I saw a special on them on CNBC and noted to myself how their corporate culture doesn't fit my personal beliefs. In principle, I cannot allign myself or my business with them.
However, the community of buyers that eBay offers is the only reason why I will continue to sell copper cents through them. And, to help move off-spec product, I'll accept PayPal for the specials that I have. Both of these can also change if I get another itch... or email. |
| jadedragon |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 23:27:18
An alternate solution is just open another = no reserve = paypal account. |
| CoinHunter53562 |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 22:11:34
I just got an interesting email from Paypal about cash back for using your PP debit card. In the past, I would get 1% back of the total transaction as cash back deposited right back into the PP account. Well the latest thing from PP is "Many of you asked us to make tracking your PayPal Debit Card cash back simpler. You got it." So now instead of doing it each time you use the card, they will do a lump sum amount at the end of each month.
Individually, it's not going to matter much, but as a whole, think of how much float this will provide for Paypal. Does this seem rather obvious to anyone else as a spin job on their part, similar to MH's complaint?
|
| PennehChaos. |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 12:26:18
Ugh. Another week, another announcement by ebay/paypal that they've discovered a new way to gouge sellers.
I keep waiting for M$ to announce a competitor to epay... instead they keep poking at the search engine market. |
| dakota1955 |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 16:30:05
we all must do what we feel is right for each one of us and let the chips fall as they may |
| slickeast |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 15:13:56
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
However in the future PayPal may decide that a
reserve is not longer required.
I think that YOU will let them know that they will no longer being holding a reserve of YOUR money by taking your business somewhere else.
If enough people stand up and not allow this to happen then their legs would be knocked out from under them. |
| Coll3ctor |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 10:31:39
What a load of **** !!! |
| HoardCopperByTheTon |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 08:41:03
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
PayPal reviews all accounts and makes determinations as to if we our going to require reserve or not on an account.
Maybe with all the increase profits from your reserves they can hire folks that speak english.. or invest in a proper grammer checker.  |
| Market Harmony |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 08:21:53
It looks like PayPal has made their final decision. And, of course, it is in their favor. This whole customer solutions system is seriously lacking any real "help" to clients. 3 different people responded to my inquiry and nobody directly addressed my concerns or questions. Nobody is willing to stick their neck out and go against one of their co-worker's decisions. They have a simple policy and I can just imagine the internal bureaucracy that must be going on there.
Here's their final word:
Dear Market Harmony Sales,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further.
The account has been reviewed and the reserves are going to remain on
the account. A reserve. In a nutshell, a reserve is a percentage of the
money you take in that’s held in your account temporarily to help make
sure you can cover transaction liabilities like reversals or
chargeback’s.
PayPal reviews all accounts and makes determinations as to if we our
going to require reserve or not on an account. At this time we have made
that determination. However in the future PayPal may decide that a
reserve is not longer required.
Sincerely,
Joseph
Merchant Solutions
PayPal, an eBay Company
I just love how they decide to attach a little bit of hope on a rope at the end.
More changes are coming for Market Harmony... I'll have to find a good shopping cart software to integrate with my bank's merchant credit card account. Perhaps this little set-back will actually turn out to be a great thing for my company.
I would much rather focus on production and less on sales. I like how things work with Nate at the Copper Cave. I get to sell to him, and he gets to market the products.
Thanks for following along and all the nice feedback. Even though coppersnake's response was a bit insulting, the point was well made. PayPal and eBay are not positioning themselves to provide solutions to companies like Market Harmony. |
| CoinHunter53562 |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 23:52:16
Wow....sounds like Paypal has made up their mind and won't budge. If you want to look at other avenues for a merchant service provider, I am using one and can give you more info. Just let me know if you are interested. The only drawback is customers have to give you their cc info, so I don't know how yours will feel about that. Also, there is a monthly fee of $10-$20 or so depending on your volume, plus of course the percentage from the actual transactions. |
| JerrySpringer |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 21:28:48
If they make state sales tax mandatory to collect for online auction sales, how much do you think that will mess with the profits for Ebay? This will be interesting to watch. The margins for sellers' profit and buyers' competing bids keep prices in tight ranges. Tacking on sales taxes will lower final bid prices IMHO or just turn off buyers possibly. |
| oober |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 21:28:41
I haven't read this whole thread, but this is all just a ploy to make money off our funds... Interest on these "cough cough" reserve funds can add up to millions of dollars in income each yr...
You would think these guys are making enough cash... |
| Market Harmony |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 21:09:42
The latest emails from PayPal to me and me to PayPal:
PayPal to me:
Dear Michael,
Hello my name is Angela, I am responding to your inquiry regarding the
reserve which will start on July 9, 2009.
Like a lot of financial companies, we’re going to start holding a small
percentage of the total payments you receive – a reserve. In a
nutshell, a reserve is a percentage of the money you take in that’s held
in your account temporarily to help make sure you can cover transaction
liabilities like reversals or chargebacks.
Your reserve percentage will be 10%, and we’ll hold it on a rolling
60-day schedule. That means 10% of the money you take in each day will
get held, and then released 60 days later. And while we know this is a
significant change, tough economic times mean that we, too, have to be
more prudent.
Further information on reserves can be found in our Help Center. To
access the Help Center, click the "Help" link at the top of any PayPal
webpage. This decision will remain in place at this time.
Thank you for being a valuable member of the PayPal community.
Sincerely,
Angela
Merchant Solutions Senior Specialist
PayPal, an eBay Company
my response to PayPal: (sorry, it's a bit long)
Dear Angela,
Perhaps you misunderstood me:
1) I have contacted my own financial institutions, both on a personal basis and via telephone conference to discuss a reserve balance on my account with them and the potential for a reserve to be placed in the future. They all respond with a, "No" I cannot accept your statement, "Like a lot of financial companies, we’re going to start holding a small percentage of the total payments you receive – a reserve" I cannot find any evidence of this happening personally, or with any of the other business owners with whom I am in regular contact.
2) By holding a reserve on my account, PayPal is causing added costs to be incurred by my business. Not only is cashflow tied up, but there will be increased accounting. For a small business like mine, how can I justify continuing to do business like this? My company works on a cash basis, not accrual. When the goods are shipped, or money received, then the transaction is recorded. I do not plan to alter my accounting basis. By adding additional transactions, such as a reserve balance being issued to or taken from my PayPal account, I am in effect adding time and cost to track these transactions on my books. Please tell me how this new procedure is going to be of any help to me. I fail to see any benefits.
3) "Tough economic times" How dare you! You get to sit at your desk and read emails like what you are reading now and get to say something like that to person who is trying to make something of themselves. If you want to talk of tough economic times, you are welcome to open up your own business and try to deal with a payment processor undeservingly placing reserves on your own transactions. You can deal with cashflow. You can deal with accounting. The thing is, Angela, I have my doubts that you even know what those tough economic times that you speak of, really are. Please put yourself in my shoes for a moment. I'm at your mercy here. I know this. I'm not trying to sound demeaning in any way, but this is business. I'm running one and I need to keep cashflow issues and operations costs at a minimum. I cannot accept the reserves being placed on my account. I hope you can understand the crucial importance that this is to me.
I have alluded to the fact that I am in contact with many other business owners. In fact, the vast majority of them are also dealing in the same goods (coins and currency) with which I deal. I have been consulting with them since I received the initial email from PayPal regarding a reserve on my account. The odd thing that I have found is that none of them have received the same email that I have received. Some of them are eBay powersellers, some of them hold their own web-based store with shopping cart software that accepts PayPal, and some of them sell less than my company. They all are dealing in a similar manner as my company. The general response from them is shock, sympathy, assurance that this practice doesn't seem right, and 100% of them support me in my decision to continue to write to you in order to have this reserve to not be associated with my account. But, my time is valuable to me, and writing these email seems to be a waste of that time. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.
Angela, my only hope is that you can get this reserve taken off of my account. I will have to stop using PayPal for the majority of transactions if the reserve is placed on my account. This is not an emotional response from an angry client. I have to make a business decision based on how my company operates. I have always enjoyed my PayPal experience and I want to continue to do so. I also enjoy running my business and receiving feedback of satisfied clients. In fact, I have 100% positive feedback with a history of zero returns or chargebacks. My business is growing rapidly. I have just expanded production capacity and my product line. My total sales growth from year end 2008 to today, halfway through 2009, is already 90 times what I have sold in 2008 altogether. PayPal has the opportunity to either make money from additional transactions generated by me, or to make a very small amount by holding a 10% 60 day reserve on my transactions. I can 100% guarantee you that PayPal will lose out on the added transactions that could be generated by me if the reserve is placed on my account. I absolutely must reduce my PayPal transactions and go with the alternative if this reserve is placed on my account. Ultimately, you are left with 2 choices:
1) Keep the reserve on my account- you get to hold 10% of my reduced total amount of transactions for 60 days. You will make less based on total transaction fees as I will be forced to reduce the total number of PayPal transactions. The amount of any possible reserves will therefore be very low, and for PayPal, will not even be worth holding.
or 2) Keep my account free of reserves- you make the upfront transaction fees on an increase in activity. More transactions by me means more transaction fees going to PayPal. That is your business model.
I would be happy to send more business to PayPal in the upcoming months and years... as long as there is no reserve on my account. A reserve being placed on my account will send a signal to me that I am not an important client to PayPal, and therefore my online transactions will go to someone else that does find my business important to them. Angela, if the choice is yours, then do what is right. If the choice is not yours, then take my account to a decision-maker and tell them what the right decision is to make.
Humbly Yours,
Michael
I think this is the last email by me to them regarding this. Writing more will just mean spinning my wheels. This reserve on my account is ridiculous and they will certainly lose out on the bulk of my business with them. I have until July 9 (I thought it was supposed to be the 25th according to the first email) until the reserve takes hold. I'll keep this thread updated. |
| Gr33nday43 |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 22:11:35
Marketharmony,
Really sorry to hear that PayPal isn't listening to you. I know that if they do this to too many people it could really put a dent in their profits. I hope they left the reserves.
Taylor |
| dakota1955 |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 20:43:06
hope it can get work out but you may need to stay the course |
| Market Harmony |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 19:58:38
Ok, I finally got a response from PayPal today... 1 week after writing to them. Here it is:
Dear Michael,
Thank you for contacting PayPal, my name is Ryan and I am happy to
assist you today.
Michael, we appreciate the time you've taken to write us with your
comments about the reserves that have been added to your account.
I apologize for the inconvenience that they are causing you. Although
we are unable to remove the reserves, I will be sure to pass your
feedback along to management.
PayPal continuously strives to provide you with the highest quality
website features and navigation system. We carefully consider every
feedback email we receive and appreciate your suggestions.
Thank you very much for your feedback. We value your business.
Don't forget, we're always around if you need us. Just click "Help" in
the top right corner of any PayPal page to visit our improved Help
Center.
Sincerely,
Ryan
Merchant Solutions
PayPal, an eBay Company
So I wrote back immediately:
Hello,
The response is appreciated, but the action is lacking. I have made phone calls, and this is now my 3rd email to PayPal. I would like an official response from a manager regarding my account status.
The reserve on my account is unacceptable. Unless it is removed prior to July 25, I will be cancelling my PayPal account.
Regards,
Michael
I just cannot agree to this action being taken by PayPal. I'm so charged up about this that I want to beginning posting about this experience all over the place. I'm doubting that I will, however, as it will most likely be fruitless.
It just so happened that I received a call from my bank that has the merchant credit card account for me on the same day that I received the first notice. I talked to them about it and they also said that this action was crazy, and reassured me that they never hold reserves on any transactions... and PayPal was trying to claim that this is standard practice. By whom? Booooooo! |
| El Dee |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 16:36:06
quote:
Originally posted by Market Harmony
As a side note:
I called the number, but it immediately asked for the last 4 digits of my credit card associated with the account... I hung up the phone and will go directly to the PayPal sight to confirm the phone number first. I don't trust these kinds of emails, and I kindly suggest that nobody trust emails with phone numbers in them.
Thanks for the vent. I feel a little better.
ALWAYS forward a questionable one to spoof@paypal.com to see if it is real. |
| buyingsilvers |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 15:42:57
make sure its real. Granted, I'm not a huge seller on ebay, but I have received no such email. |
| HoardCopperByTheTon |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 01:30:04
Did you ask them about FDIC insurance? Seems this is a very risky place to leave your money. The government might not even consider them too big to fail.
Perhaps they should allow fair competition and allow many alternative payment methods. If their pricing is "competitive" as they say, there should be no need to make their payment method mandatory.
Wow, Coins are a higher risk category for chargebacks. Guess you better stop selling them on ebay and reduce your exposure. Who wants to sell anything on eBay anyway when they are setting you up to be scammed by unscrupulous buyers?
Like NDFARMER, I virtually elimated my eBay presence a year or so ago when they jacked up their fees just one too many times for me.
Excellent letter you sent to them Michael. Did you get the autoresponse yet? 
The eBay/PayPal motto: You do all the work and take all the risks, we make all the profits. |
| Gr33nday43 |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 01:16:01
The bad thing is that they have such a large market share of the auction business that no one can really compete with them. Hm...I wonder if an antitrust would arise out of this in the coming years? It is so hard to start a site like eBay, because the buyers aren't being charged fees and the seller does not want to go to another site where there are no buyers... |
| Pennyworth |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 01:00:14
That is not acceptable. His account is in good standing and he should not have to have any of his money held for 60 days. I sold on ebay for 10 years and I enjoyed. I took a two year break and came back this year and a lot had changed. I don't like selling on there any more. I have tried to find buyers locally for some of the items I have. Ebay/PayPal have exceeded greedy...they are THEIVES, ripping off the sellers so to speak! |
| Neckro |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 00:21:08
I guess they're trying to hedge against fly by night scam business's |
| Gr33nday43 |
Posted - 06/24/2009 : 23:52:35
quote:
Originally posted by highroller4321
Wow, this is ridicoulus!
Someone needs to start a new company like paypal...
I am in no way affiliated with this site, but here's one I found on paypalsucks.com...
http://www.merchantinc.com/ |
| dakota1955 |
Posted - 06/24/2009 : 22:14:21
Keep us posted on the outcome. I have to agree that this new move doesn't seem right. |
| highroller4321 |
Posted - 06/24/2009 : 21:57:01
Wow, this is ridicoulus!
Someone needs to start a new company like paypal... |
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